Undertone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Hi. Do we generally feel fan cooling is "better" than heat sink cooling at the back of solid state amp heads? Fans obviously an additional moving part that can malfunction, and can generate noise, whereas head sinks are silent and stationary. Let's assume the fan is sufficiently quiet for the moment. Do we feel Fans are more or less effective at cooling vs heat sinks? What other issues do I need to consider? The main context here is in fact a 90's Trace Elliot SMX 300W head. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Undertone said: Do we generally feel fan cooling is "better" than heat sink cooling at the back of solid state amp heads? I don't think you need to think about this unless you're designing a bass amp - or looking to buy an old one that has a bad reputation for shutting down on loud gigs (there must be some but I can't think of one!) You need a much bigger heatsink with passive cooling vs forced air cooling. Most amps with fans will have heatsinks too, just the fan allows the heatsink to be smaller, light and cheaper. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Fans can add audible noise if they run when you are playing at low practice levels; some are noisier than others and can be intrusive. Dust is also sucked into the amp by fans; I have 35 year old natural convection cooled Trace Elliot heads that are completely clean inside. Unless I was running a natural convection cooled head near to its max output in a warm environment for long periods I wouldn't be concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Agreed with above - some of it will come down to the size of head you want - my solid state doesn’t have a fan - but it’s ‘big’ for today’s size at 2U rack size. Its got loads of space inside to keep it cool, but I love the sound so it’s a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I hate fan noise even at levels a bat wouldn't hear. At a gig I can cope - but in the house it drives me insane. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Fan in my TCE BH250 seems silent to me. Similarly fans in Yamaha and EMX5012 mixer & DXR10s also silent. Any noisey fan would have to go. P.S. My hearing ain't what it used to be though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 53 minutes ago, fretmeister said: I hate fan noise even at levels a bat wouldn't hear. At a gig I can cope - but in the house it drives me insane. Yep, me too. I can't abide them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Many thanks for the replies people - helpful. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 As power levels increase and size decreases, fan cooling becomes more and more necessary. This is something that the pro audio industry has dealt with for decades. There are good implementations with fans and poor implementations with fans, noise level being the most objectionable issues. Fan cooled amps do not need to be noisy. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 19 hours ago, ahpook said: Yep, me too. I can't abide them. Bats or the fans? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 If you can hear the fan you're not playing loud enough! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: If you can hear the fan you're not playing loud enough! I have great sympathy with this despite me personally hating fan noise completely. But sometimes I'm accompanying only a single clarinet or flute and on some amps the fan noise is obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Noisiest fan I've ever had was in my mid 90s Hartke AH3500. Never bothered me because that's all I was used to (and it's still going strong). Back then gear was big, heavy, noisy (mostly ugly too) and real men played bass; nowadays I'm not so sure. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Any non-weird size noisy fan can be replaced by purchasing a replacement from these peeps below. I've done this on a few occasions over the years https://www.quietpc.com/casefans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 8 hours ago, fleabag said: Any non-weird size noisy fan can be replaced by purchasing a replacement from these peeps below. I've done this on a few occasions over the years https://www.quietpc.com/casefans Beware that the fan's voltage, current, CFM and static pressure ratings need to be very close on any fan that uses feedback speed control. These parameters are an important part of how well the fan speed tracks temperature. It's possible to really screw things up by focusing on the quietest fan, resulting in an amp that will either shut down (if you are lucky) or fail (if you are unlucky). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) On 20/08/2020 at 12:51, Bill Fitzmaurice said: If you can hear the fan you're not playing loud enough! Not always a realistic approach for home practice when one is concerned about not annoying neighbours, which is when I find fan noise most distracting. Edited August 22, 2020 by ahpook 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 hours ago, agedhorse said: Beware that the fan's voltage, current, CFM and static pressure ratings need to be very close on any fan that uses feedback speed control. These parameters are an important part of how well the fan speed tracks temperature. It's possible to really screw things up by focusing on the quietest fan, resulting in an amp that will either shut down (if you are lucky) or fail (if you are unlucky). Yup, i would assume people would check the parameters first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodwind Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ahpook said: Not always a realistic approach for home practice when one is concerned about not annoying neighbours, which is when I find fan noise most distracting. or playing in an acoustic environment, just like @fretmeister says. I can't use amps with fans at all as even near silent ones become noticeable in resonant spaces. Edited August 22, 2020 by Woodwind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 20/08/2020 at 12:51, Bill Fitzmaurice said: If you can hear the fan you're not playing loud enough! And: If you can hear the fan, your amplifier is way over-powered for your needs* 😁 *Yes I get it, lots of people use their gigging amp for practice too, hence the smiley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 I've got a couple of Trace Elliot's both with heat sinks, some models have fans, prefer the heat sinks, no noise and less to go wrong, and bizarrely, they seem to weigh less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 3 hours ago, PaulWarning said: I've got a couple of Trace Elliot's both with heat sinks, some models have fans, prefer the heat sinks, no noise and less to go wrong, and bizarrely, they seem to weigh less Yes, I have a TE head with no fan for just this reason. Aside from older stuff like this, are there any modern heads that are fanless ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, ahpook said: Yes, I have a TE head with no fan for just this reason. Aside from older stuff like this, are there any modern heads that are fanless ? How old is old? or how modern? Edited August 22, 2020 by Cuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Cuzzie said: How old is old? or how modern? Use your own judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 I don't think my Fender Rumble 500 had a fan, if it did it was noiseless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, ahpook said: Use your own judgement. Ok - my solid state with no fan came out in 2015, it’s discontinued now (not for any reliability of issues of it being rubbish) - I would call that modern - but it is a 2U rack size 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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