Replacement MM 3 Band eq Stingray Preamp Recommendations

[BarelyL4]

Hi, I believe that the original standard 3 band eq in my Stingray has given up the ghost so I was looking for recommendations for a replacement that will drop straight in - I see that both Seymour Duncan and John East offer a couple of options. Which of these would people recommend and are there any others that I should consider? Ideally, the chosen one should be an easy DIY fit and sound as good as the original pre, if not better. I play mainly rock and pop style music.

Thanks in advance. 

[drTStingray]

The easiest drop in replacement is the correct EBMM 3 band EQ unit - which they would normally sell you on receipt of the broken one - suggest you email their customer services for details. 

 

[pete.young]

Can't go wrong with John East - brilliant product and first-rate customer service.

[mcnach]

+100 on John East.

I'd get the 3-band, 4-knob version, and it would be a straight drop-in. It's based on the 2-band one [*], with an additional semiparametric mids module. 

[*] with the mids in the centre detent position, the mids module does nothing and is essentially the classic 2EQ preamp. 

edit: and you could ask nicely and get a pull/push switch on the volume knob so that you can bypass the preamp. It's very rarely needed, but it can come handy sometimes. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by mcnach

[Beedster]

On 31/08/2020 at 20:43, pete.young said:

Can't go wrong with John East - brilliant product and first-rate customer service.

 

9 minutes ago, mcnach said:

+100 on John East.

I'd get the 3-band, 4-knob version, and it would be a straight drop-in. It's based on the 2-band one [*], with an additional semiparametric mids module. 

[*] with the mids in the centre detent position, the mids module does nothing and is essentially the classic 2EQ preamp. 

Yep, a significant upgrade on the EBMM 3-band circuit

[ahpook]

57 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Yep, a significant upgrade on the EBMM 3-band circuit

Couldn't agree more.

Go East !

[fleabag]

Just for the record  East is North.

Yup, to travel to Johns gaff i drive north and as he's not far from me,  if i want East bits and bobs, i go to his house, where his workshop is. I like to time it just as he's boiled the kettle and made some toast.  Makes a fine cuppa, and the toast aint bad either.

I've known JE  for 30 years.  His work with Sony Pro Audio and Solid State Logic  was awesome.  He's as nice a guy as comes across in his customer service.  100%.  He's a damn good bass player too.  Ya just cant go wrong with East pre's.

[BarelyL4]

Thanks all for the glowing reports! I've now gone ahead and placed an order for the 4knob, 3 band pre - very much looking forward to installing it and giving it a test drive

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, BarelyL4 said:

Thanks all for the glowing reports! I've now gone ahead and placed an order for the 4knob, 3 band pre - very much looking forward to installing it and giving it a test drive

Remember to keep the old stuff - as good as the East circuit may be (based on his 76 Stingray - there were two or three EQ upgrades in pre EB days after that) most people buying Stingrays used would want it stock - in other words the resale would likely be reduced.

As I said previously, you can buy a replacement circuit on an exchange basis (so a new owner could if you sold the bass with the replaced parts).

For those who don't know, the EBMM 3 band EQ mid is largely as the 2 band when cut by around 50% and the bass and treble boosted a bit. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by drTStingray

[mcnach]

On 03/09/2020 at 13:39, Beedster said:

 

Yep, a significant upgrade on the EBMM 3-band circuit

 

indeed!!!

[acidbass]

I personally didn't like the East MM preamp - the lack of centre detents really put me off. I like to have those as a reference point. Just personal preference!

[mcnach]

9 hours ago, acidbass said:

I personally didn't like the East MM preamp - the lack of centre detents really put me off. I like to have those as a reference point. Just personal preference!

 

Neither does the original Stingray 2EQ, so...

(the JE 3EQ does have centre detents, for reference only as they're in the middle which is not the 'flat' point, except for the mids control, where the centre detent is place at the point where the control does neither boost nor cut anything)

[drTStingray]

Does the JE 3EQ have a high pass filter? And does the mid control simply alter the mid of the 2 band as in mid sweep (as opposed to cut and boost around a specific frequency?) 

[mcnach]

42 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Does the JE 3EQ have a high pass filter? And does the mid control simply alter the mid of the 2 band as in mid sweep (as opposed to cut and boost around a specific frequency?) 

 

No, as far as I can tell, the JE 3EQ does not have a high pass filter applied to it, it's not like EBMM's 3EQ.

I think John East only made a version of the MusicMan 2EQ preamp based on his '76 Stingray, and the 3-band preamp is that 2EQ plus a separate mids module (which in fact you can buy on its own).

I know the JE 2EQ is not *exactly* the same as his '76 because he told me as much, but it's not very different. I have never had the pleasure of playing a Stingray of that era, so I can't tell how it differs from the more modern 2EQ versions. My own 2002 2EQ had only some subtle differences with the John East version, most notably was that I felt the bass was a bit tighter, and the treble a bit less shrill when pushed hard (but then I don't normally push the treble, so that wouldn't matter to me much). The treble knob can be pulled for extra brightness which brought it more in line with what the original 2002 2EQ preamp sounded like. 

In other words, I liked the John East 2EQ better than my original EBMM 2002 2EQ, but the difference was not such that it would make me want to replace one with the other. 

The John East 3EQ is constructed by linking the 2EQ and the mids module together. The treble and bass controls have a centre detent in the stacked-pot version, for reference only, but not in the single pot version (so like the MusicMan ones in the 2EQ).

The mids module is a stacked knob control, with centre frequency on one and cut/boost gain on the other. It is completely inactive when at teh centre detent. The frequency centre can be adjusted, which can be very useful: it's not something I need to tweak very often or anything, but when you want it it's there. The midsweep is very broad: you can focus on anything from 100Hz to 2000Hz [*], although in practice I seem to only use two narrow areas on its travel, one to boost sometimes some very low mids, and another to cut a bit some higher mids, but most of the time I have it in the centre detent doing nothing. I'm a big fan of the MusicMan 2EQ in general, in whatever incarnation, once you work out how the two controls interact I find it very intuitive and musical unlike pretty much every other 2-band preamp I've ever tried... which means that in practice I get broadly the sound I want from the 2EQ section, including the mids. I use the additional mids control more as a way to get a couple specific variations that I can kick in for a specific song or a spacific part, and then revert to the 'normal' tone.

I am not saying the EBMM 3EQ is bad, because it isn't. But I much prefer the general character of the 2EQ (familiarity may be a big factor?) with the added versatility of the semiparametric mids as a separate module.   

[*] There are a couple of internal switches on the circuit board that allows you to select the actuall range to be 100-1000Hz or 200-2000Hz. I have it set at 100-1000Hz, personally.

Edited September 5, 2020 by mcnach

[Beedster]

I found the highs on the East unit were less brittle than on the original. I was playing bright rounds at the time, it's possible that were I playing flats I'd not have noticed so much difference, but as above, the mid sweep on the East was a serious improvement

[drTStingray]

Cheers guys, thanks for that info. 

In my view the first version of the Musicman 2 band EQ is a bit tamer than the subsequent ones (there were, apparently two more up to 1979). The 2 band from 79 on is essentially (with V minor variation) the same circuit etc right up to recent stopping of production (owing to production limitations because of Covid - stated by Scott on the MM forum - he has said they will be issuing a limited version soon and probably nothing further until a revamp in 2022 - apparently they sell tens more Specials for every Classic/Old Smoothie). 

The three band East with the stack pot and mid sweep sounds useful - although the filter on the EBMM is also useful because it does cut out boomy low frequencies. 

I have an old SR4 3 band which I might experiment with (carefully keeping the stock bits to retro fit if needed) - it's quite a tatty bass though it's in a really nice colour - although I have a feeling a new set of strings would help it a lot. I might try an East with the Aguillar pick up if the string change doesn't give me what I'm after - I really like the EBMM 3 band in my SR5 and other SR4s (especially the 2 pick up variants). 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by drTStingray

[SpondonBassed]

Plus one for the John East four knob pre.  I have a Ray34, courtesy of @Dov65,  with a Nordstrand 4.2 and the East pre.

It has a beautiful voice.  From the low and growly to the upper harmonics, it sounds enormous.  I love the mid sweep.

Edited September 6, 2020 by SpondonBassed

[lee650]

On 03/09/2020 at 19:41, drTStingray said:

For those who don't know, the EBMM 3 band EQ mid is largely as the 2 band when cut by around 50% and the bass and treble boosted a bit. 

Do you know it that's the same for the EBMM Sterling Pre? I believe its differently voiced! 😁

[drTStingray]

39 minutes ago, lee650 said:

Do you know it that's the same for the EBMM Sterling Pre? I believe its differently voiced! 😁

Not entirely sure but I do something similar with my ceramic  pu SR5 - cut the mid and boost the treble and bass slightly - I bring up the mid dependant on how punchy I want the sound, and the treble for top end sizzle - the EBMM Sterling, electronically, is effectively a 4 string version of the ceramic pu SR5. 

[EBS_freak]

On 05/09/2020 at 04:09, acidbass said:

I personally didn't like the East MM preamp - the lack of centre detents really put me off. I like to have those as a reference point. Just personal preference!

Isn't that because people run the pres flat out anyway?

[acidbass]

17 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Isn't that because people run the pres flat out anyway?

Yeah I guess the 2 band is mostly used like that!

[SpondonBassed]

The two band (and the three band modelled upon it) had assymetric boost and cut for bass and treble so the detent wouldn't be at the centre anyway.

[drTStingray]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Isn't that because people run the pres flat out anyway?

I think this is correct (I also do it although I pull the treble back a little) and whilst the sound FOH is great, both bass and treble fully boosted creates a reasonable mid range scoop which happens to coincide with the frequencies of the G (string) - if you are playing in a band where other players are saturating this frequency, and dependent on the characteristics of your amp, you (right in front of your amp) may have issues hearing those notes as prominently as the lower strings.

The simple way around this (something I do when using a 2 band MM and especially my Sabre, which has dual pick up settings which can provide scoop as per a Jazz bass) is to boost the upper mids on the amp slightly. 

This is why the MM 3 band pre amp is v useful and the East with the sweepable mid control also is.

All of these things are a compromise. 

If you like the MM sound, the Stingray Special has a revoiced preamp with different mid range characteristics, which when combined with neo pick ups and an 18 volt preamp can create the warmth of the 2 band with a lot more control, whilst retaining all the other strengths of the Stingray bass. 

 

[NancyJohnson]

I'd had a John East unit on an old Jazz bass and decided to install a three-knob unit on one of my Lull basses earlier in the year.  Things didn't go well, but John was quite brilliant in helping out. 

I also put a four-knob unit on my Spector 8-string a couple of months back.

Top kit!

[Geek99]

Can someone recommend which 3 band eq model from John east you’re talking about ? 
I think the one on my vintage EST96a has died