Baloney Balderdash Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) So as the headline says, what relatively cheap but decent microphones will I need to mike up an acoustic drum set, when I only have 4 tracks at my disposal to record on, for a bass and drums duo where I play the bass? I am thinking a kick drum mic, a snare/hi-hat mic, a crash/tam mic and then an overhead/room mic, but other suggestion that will likely give better results are welcome, and I am completely at loss when it comes to choosing the actual microphones for it. I am planing to buy a Tascam DR-680 MkII for recording the drums and bass live, which can record on 8 tracks total, but only got 4 XLR inputs and 2 Jack inputs, intending to use the 4 XLR inputs for drum microphones, and then 1 of the Jack inputs for a DI recording of the bass and the other for miking up the bass cab, running it through a microphone preamp, and then transfer these 4 recorded drum tracks + 2 recorded bass tracks to my DAW later for mixing and adding vocals and eventual additional programmed and physical secondary instrumentation. I am open to the suggestion of using 5 tracks for the drums if it will give a considerably better result, and then just using a single DI'ed bass track though. The reason why I chose to use a small recorder is for ease of transportability to our rehearsal place, since I don't own a laptop or a car and I don't need the recordings to be super hi-fi. Edited September 1, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said: ...what relatively cheap but decent microphone will I need to mike up an acoustic drum set... Here's a very good, versatile, set of drum mics that don't cost much, but punch well above their price point ... Superlux DRK K5C2 ... We've been using Superlux mics for years, for 'live' or recording, and they do a very good job indeed. OK, there's more in the case than you've asked for, but at that price for them all, they'll be hard to beat compared to three dedicated mics from elsewhere. I'd stress that these are 'inexpensive', not 'cheap'. For recording drums, I'd recommend using three, basically. One for the bass drum, another for the snare, the third, an overhead. Personally I like to mix the hi-hat into my tracks, so, as an option, I'd mic that as well. Without that, though, the three tracks will do very nicely. Positioning (and room acoustics...) are more important than much else, as even modest mics these days are darned good. Three for the drums frees up an Xlr for the bass cab mic, which could be handy. There are plenty of videos on how to get good results from a three-mic drum kit; might be worth a look around..? I've a few books on the subject too; ask away if more info is needed. Make sure your budget stretches to stands and cables, of course. A clip is in the kit case for the snare (and toms...), but a stubby stand for the bass drum and a boom stand for the o/h will be required. Hope this helps. Edited September 1, 2020 by Dad3353 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj5string Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Simple Glyn Johns setup - done 👍 Kick Mic, Snare Mic and a large diaphragm condensor as an OH. Thomann SM57 copy for the snare will be spot on, and there are plenty of budget large diaphragm condensors knocking around - I used a Shure PG27 for a bit that can be picked up cheap second hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 As per @Dad3353, 3 or 4 mics for the drums. Google 'The Glyn John's method'. We can get really good drum recordings with minimal effort that require very little post processing. A key aspect mentioned in the 'method' is getting the mic to snare distances the same (this was re-learned the hard way, we now use a measuring stick to set them up quickly). Drummer bought a sub £100 Thomann t.bone set which seem good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, 3below said: ...a sub £100 Thomann t.bone set which seem good. That would be this one ... the t.bone DC 1200 ... That's a Good Deal, to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj5string Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: That would be this one ... the t.bone DC 1200 ... That's a Good Deal, to. Is a good deal - but if you only need 3 mics, you would probably be better focussing on the mics you need... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, aj5string said: Is a good deal - but if you only need 3 mics, you would probably be better focussing on the mics you need... Three new mics to do the job may well cost more than a pack, and the packs above are Good Stuff. There's always better, but it depends on one's definition of 'relatively cheap'. The mics he 'needs' are in those kits, and more for later on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimesBass Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Agree with all that's been posted so far... Price being relative, i'd also recommend the Audix DP4 set of 4 mics. The D6 kick mic can make a sheet of cardboard sound like a convincing bass drum 😂 If 4 mics are an option i'd personally go for Kick, snare and a matched pair of stereo overheads arranged a big lower and in front of the kit. You can bias the overheads closer to the HH if it's important to the sound you're looking for. As Dad3353 mentioned above (and paraphrasing a bit), a good room is worth more than the number of mics you have... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, TwoTimesBass said: Agree with all that's been posted so far... Price being relative, i'd also recommend the Audix DP4 set of 4 mics. The D6 kick mic can make a sheet of cardboard sound like a convincing bass drum 😂 If 4 mics are an option i'd personally go for Kick, snare and a matched pair of stereo overheads arranged a big lower and in front of the kit. You can bias the overheads closer to the HH if it's important to the sound you're looking for. As Dad3353 mentioned above (and paraphrasing a bit), a good room is worth more than the number of mics you have... As I noted before, wherever you put the overheads remember phasing issues. If the drums sound all 'spaced out', mushy, 'echoey' or just 'crap' etc, try positioning the overheads so that they are equidistant to the snare. Would not want others wasting the substantial amount of time I and my did :( Edited September 4, 2020 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimesBass Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, 3below said: Wherever you put the overheads remember phasing issues. If the drums sound all 'spaced out', mushy, 'echoey' or just 'crap' etc, try positioning the overheads so that they are equidistant to the snare. A lesson learned from wasting a substantial amount of my time and my drummer's time :( This is generally good advice for any recording session. Taking time to experiment with mic combinations and placement saves a ton of work trying to rescue a great performance when it comes to mixdown. Phase is especially important if you also mic the underside of the snare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TwoTimesBass said: This is generally good advice for any recording session. Taking time to experiment with mic combinations and placement saves a ton of work trying to rescue a great performance when it comes to mixdown. Phase is especially important if you also mic the underside of the snare. The 'biggest' five lessons I have learned from home /diy band recording* are: Tune frequently Get the mix / sound quality / tone right before recording. record at low levels, at the most peak at -6dB (digital) - noise is not an issue, it is a digital recording record everything - storage is cheap play with dynamics, think loud/quiet. As @TwoTimesBass states this saves a ton of work afterwards. Having done band recordings with the above in mind it subsequently takes me about 5 mins to master a track - bit of compression on bass/bass drum, reverb/echo to taste on vocals and finally some stereo widening. Then again I am not aiming for Steely Dan / Pink Floyd standards. * home recording - using a focusrite scarlett that has better performance specs than Abbey Road had when recording Sgt Pepper's. The skill of 1950s/60s recording engineers was/is staggering. Edited September 4, 2020 by 3below Failing to use an apostrophe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimesBass Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, 3below said: Then again I am not aiming for Steely Dan / Pink Floyd standards. Part of why Steely Dan recordings in particular are so well regarded is that there is minimal processing between what was recorded and what you hear. Essentially Point 2 above, plus great musicianship and engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 3below said: As I noted before, wherever you put the overheads remember phasing issues. If the drums sound all 'spaced out', mushy, 'echoey' or just 'crap' etc, try positioning the overheads so that they are equidistant to the snare. Would not want others wasting the substantial amount of time I and my did :( One of the side benefits of 3-mic recording is that these phase issues are no longer there. If stereo panning is not required (and for drums it's not that useful for home recording...), bass drum/snare/overhead covers most of the ground. There are scores of methods for recording in general, and drums in particular, but if one gets it right with the 3-mic method, it's a darned good place to start. I heartily agree that experimenting with placing and distance is time well spent, and an afternoon trying a dozen different variations, then listening critically back to the results, is worthwhile. Placing the drums in the room makes a big difference, too, depending on the acoustics. Setting it up in a corner, or in the middle, and listening to the difference helps find the 'sweet spot' (there's always one spot better than the rest for what one's purpose might be...). Don't forget the other 'tasty tricks', either. One of the best 'reggae' bass drums I got down, many decades ago, was by recording the swatting of a huge ladybird cushion stuffed into a plastic bowl with a wooden spoon. Heady daze..! Edited September 4, 2020 by Dad3353 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pea Turgh Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 These are awesome and cheap: https://www.woodbrass.com/en-gb/microphones-dynamic-prodipe-tt1-pro-ludovic-lanen-p115344.html I bought a three pack. They’ve been compared to the Telefunken M80, probably come from the same factory! What style of music are you playing? Some recording styles might not be suitable for some genres (if you’re trying to emulate a type of sound). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) During some recording today we started with the 4 mic method. As an experiment (following out of this thread) we reduced to 3 mics and got excellent results. Having noted how much snare the overhead mic picked up I then muted the snare mic during playbacks. So in answer to the op, you could get away with two mics: bass drum and and one overhead. Building any stereo imaging in the final mix would present a challenge Edited September 9, 2020 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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