Mass extinction event

[visog]

BC'ers,

Is it me or is played music going through a mass extinction event? No live music and recorded music having no value. I can't see us coming back from this for months and I'm not talking purely Covid. Not heard any played band music that inspires for ages. Bit bleak I know but suggest a counter argument. Please no Snarky Puppy, Wulfpeck or other re-heated jazz-funk. I'm looking for a new Beatles with a bit of Pink Floyd. And Stravinsky. 

[Nail Soup]

I don't think 'played' music is going through any kind of mass extinction.

But it is learning to co-exist alongside whatever the opposite is - 'programmed' maybe. That is not recent, been going on for a few years. 

Not sure what you mean by new Beatles.... if you mean 'pop' then a lot of that will be programmed. If you mean the Beatles with their more experimental hat then both played and programmed will apply.

 

[Happy Jack]

Current pop music - beat driven, usually in 4/4, with simply structured songs often about boy meets girl - was recognised from the start as a passing fad. The Beatles gave a famous interview in 1964 where they admitted that they expected to have been forgotten within five years, and Paul anticipated a new life for him and John as, essentially, Tin Pan Alley songwriters.

The astonishing thing is that such a simple form of music with so little underlying philosophy should have lasted as long as it has.

It will be sad when it stops, but the body of music already created will remain and can be enjoyed.

In truth, I pretty much lost interest in current pop music about 40 years ago, with some exceptions of course. There was so much good stuff produced between 1955 and 1985  that I'm very happy to wallow in it. 

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, visog said:

... is played music going through a mass extinction event?...

If you mean 'music' in a commercial sense (ie: as a vehicle for pecuniary gain...), it's not a 'given' in any case. It's never, historically, been anything more than a sideline for a privileged few, with rich patrons. In recent times (since recording, really...) it's taken a popular bound,  but it's really the exception, not the 'norme'. There have always been popular musicians, but these were local folk singers or troubadours, not gaining more than a crust. Is the Golden Age over..? Possibly; how many public roller-skating rinks are there in your town..? This time last century it was all the rage. TIM moves on, and in mysterious ways. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Dad3353

[ahpook]

53 minutes ago, visog said:

 Please no Snarky Puppy, Wulfpeck or other re-heated jazz-funk.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

9 minutes ago, ahpook said:

1 hour ago, visog said:

 Please no Snarky Puppy, Wulfpeck or other re-heated jazz-funk.

 

At least no dog-themed reheated jazz-funk.

[Graham]

There's plenty of new music coming out, I have three pre-orders on for releases in October and there's more I want to get.

Most of the music I buy now is on Bandcamp, personally I like CDs, but they seem to be in their death throes. Vinyl is very popular though, so physical media is still available.

I think a lot of artists held back their new records in the hope of being able to resume the usual album release/touring cycle, but have decided it's been too long and there's nothing to be gained by just waiting. 

[Bolo]

Up to last year, the festival season had never been busier, with new festivals sprouting all over the place. The line-ups usually consisting of some variant of guitar driven rock/pop, some singy-songwritey acts, and electronic music for the masses that broadly all identify as the same individual.. literally thousands of above  acts roamed the western world in the last two decades with no sign of slowing down, until covid19 that is.

Vast parts of Asia seem enthralled by K-pop, which has become an industrial Moloch all of it's own. Thank goodness for reheated jazz-funk. Music by people that still enjoy the craftsmanship of forging a coherent piece of music with real instruments and luckily being enjoyed by a sizeable crowd that will appreciate more complex melodies.

There have been no Beatles since the Beatles. They rode the wave being the right thing at the right time, bringing American style marketing to the rest of the world. Elvis and his contemporaries paved the way, all that was needed was a sufficiently talented and productive European outfit to roll it to popular-culture hungry teens everywhere.

Wait, what was the question?

[Beedster]

I doubt there's ever been a better time for music, it's easier to make and easier to listen to than ever. And of course, there's even more of it (and modern tech allows us to discover stuff from the past we'd otherwise never have come across)! OK, music production and culture is different to how it used to be, but they'd have been saying that in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 etc 

[Burns-bass]

50 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I doubt there's ever been a better time for music, it's easier to make and easier to listen to than ever. And of course, there's even more of it (and modern tech allows us to discover stuff from the past we'd otherwise never have come across)! OK, music production and culture is different to how it used to be, but they'd have been saying that in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 etc 

Agreed. There is some incredible new music out there.

What I’ve found as I’ve become older is that I have no time to seek out new music or be challenged by it. Some of the best albums are ones I’ve grown to cherish not instantaneously loved.

When I was growing up music was everything - what I did, how I socialised and how I met many of the people who mean the most to me.

Now it’s something I listen to on the way to and from somewhere, what I play when I’m working and (briefly) what I can immerse myself in and enjoy.

Believing that the past was somehow better is a national obsession in this country. This thread in itself typifies that. Rather than fixate on what’s not around, embrace what is and get people to recommend you some new music.

I have recently discovered Michael Kiwanuka and Vaudou Game.

(I also share the OPs dislike of Vulfpeck and Snarky Puppy. It’s academic jazz funk stripped of any passion).

Edited September 11, 2020 by Burns-bass

[Beedster]

30 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Believing that the past was somehow better is a national obsession in this country. This thread in itself typifies that. Rather than fixate on what’s not around, embrace what is and get people to recommend you some new music.

Agreed

30 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

(I also share the OPs dislike of Vulfpeck and Snarky Puppy. It’s academic jazz funk stripped of any passion).

Agreed x100, I mentioned this in another thread and someone suggested I was not getting it. Possibly, but just in the same sense that something being old doesn't make it bad, something being new doesn't make it good either. Horse/courses, YMMV etc

[yonni]

There are tons (tonnes?) of great bands around just now. The problem is that the industry seems to be such an exploitative thing that only those willing to submit to its will get backed. Amazing bands fall through the cracks or exist on a hand to mouth basis. To discover the good stuff takes a bit more effort than it used to. Most radio stations default to trusted hits (6 Music being the exception). Have you listened to Airbag (Floydian band from Norway)? I can’t even remember where I found them. I probably did a Google search for “modern prog” or something after listening to Porcupine Tree.  It’s harder to find these gems without a decent music press and only Jools Holland on TV.

 

[yonni]

I’m was in two minds about Snarky Puppy. I went to see them in Glasgow last year to see what all the fuss was about. They call themselves a “jam band” and when they play live it’s all about the music. They might not have old school jazz credentials but they’re the authentic real deal. 

[Burns-bass]

12 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Agreed

Agreed x100, I mentioned this in another thread and someone suggested I was not getting it. Possibly, but just in the same sense that something being old doesn't make it bad, something being new doesn't make it good either. Horse/courses, YMMV etc

Indeed. I don't want to drag this into a Vulfpeck good v bad discussion.

As with music, so with people - we all love what we love.

If it makes you happy, then all power to you!

[Mykesbass]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

I doubt there's ever been a better time for music, it's easier to make and easier to listen to than ever. And of course, there's even more of it (and modern tech allows us to discover stuff from the past we'd otherwise never have come across)! OK, music production and culture is different to how it used to be, but they'd have been saying that in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 etc 

+1 to this. 

There has been a huge move recently towards a more DiY, or (sorry for the much derided hipster term) artisan economy. Selling higher quality, higher priced, skillfully produced goods to a smaller number of people, direct from the maker. Musicians are already embracing this and hopefully this will be the route to a sustainable career for many in the future. Yes, it isn't going to make old school rock/pop stars of anyone, but that's a good ting isn't it?

[Beedster]

14 minutes ago, yonni said:

The problem is that the industry seems to be such an exploitative thing that only those willing to submit to its will get backed. Amazing bands fall through the cracks or exist on a hand to mouth basis. To discover the good stuff takes a bit more effort than it used to. Most radio stations default to trusted hits (6 Music being the exception). Have you listened to Airbag (Floydian band from Norway)? I can’t even remember where I found them. I probably did a Google search for “modern prog” or something after listening to Porcupine Tree.  It’s harder to find these gems without a decent music press and only Jools Holland on TV.

 

Really, I find it so easy to find new music compared to even 20 years ago. How did you find Airbag? You did a Google search. Try finding a similar band in 1980, unless they were in the print press, and most weren't, no go. And nearly all music apps etc have great algorithms to introduce you to new music, it's like Xmas every day as far as I'm concerned.

And if you think the industry is exploitative now, you should have been in it in 1980-1990 when I was. Trust me, it's a whole lot easier and better now. Not perfect by any means, but way better in nearly every respect (production values being one big exception perhaps)

 

[Beedster]

10 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

+1 to this. 

There has been a huge move recently towards a more DiY, or (sorry for the much derided hipster term) artisan economy. Selling higher quality, higher priced, skillfully produced goods to a smaller number of people, direct from the maker. Musicians are already embracing this and hopefully this will be the route to a sustainable career for many in the future. Yes, it isn't going to make old school rock/pop stars of anyone, but that's a good ting isn't it?

Agree 100%

[wateroftyne]

Personally I find it a little depressing at the moment, but it's cyclical.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

Personally I find it a little depressing at the moment, but it's cyclical.

And subjective, as you suggest

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

 And nearly all music apps etc have great algorithms to introduce you to new music, it's like Xmas every day as far as I'm concerned.

And I'm not just talking about finding newly produced music, I've discovered bands form the 70's and 80's I'd probably not have found otherwise

[wateroftyne]

13 minutes ago, Beedster said:

And subjective, as you suggest

100%.

[musicbassman]

There's just so much to listen to now - new bands, old bands you overlooked, bands revisited after many years, musical styles and cultures you didn't even know existed........

I could find something worth listening to 24 hours a day.

So much music, so little time  😲 

This morning it's been music by Caroline Shaw (composer) followed by some old Toots and the Maytals !

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

And nearly all music apps etc have great algorithms to introduce you to new music, it's like Xmas every day as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I've not had a lot of success with algorithms to introduce me to new music since Pandora stopped operating in the UK. They either bring up music I already know about and like or dull bands that IMO don't really fit the search criteria. This leads me to believe that: either I already know everything there is to know and have found all the bands I am ever likely to like in my chosen genres already, or that the algorithms are not very good.

I would agree that there is more new music available than ever before, and that along with the fact that there is no filter is part of the problem. These days anyone with a recording (of any quality) and approximately $50 can get their album up on all the major download and streaming services. That is too low an entry point IMO. It swamps the market with mediocre music and makes the good stuff even harder to find.

Edited September 11, 2020 by BigRedX

[Beedster]

15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Personally I've not had a lot of success with algorithms to introduce me to new music since Pandora stopped operating in the UK. They either bring up music I already know about and like or dull bands that IMO don't really fit the search criteria. This leads me to believe that: either I already know everything there is to know and have found all the bands I am ever likely to like in my chosen genres already, or that the algorithms are not very good.

I would agree that there is more new music available than ever before, and that along with the fact that there is no filter is part of the problem. These days anyone with a recording (of any quality) and approximately $50 can get their album up on all the major download and streaming services. That is too low an entry point IMO. It swamps the market with mediocre music and makes the good stuff even harder to find.

All good and fair points BRX, I just work the algorithms until things get more and more obscure. Re the absence of filters and in music and mediocrity, I was bought up in the 60's, 70's and 80's, and era when even the music that made it through the extensive music industry filters was largely mediocre, so I'm not sure I agree. But it's all subjective

I was watching a TV show with the kids the other day, and a song played. My eldest daughter said "Daddy, is this your band" because, no joke, it sounded like our band, and the singer could have been Robbie. So, I did it the hard way (could have used an app), typed the lyrics of the chorus into Google, and up come The White Buffalo. Funnily enough, the song in question bored me very quickly, but some of his other stuff, located in a curious artistic space between Tom Waits and Glen Campbell, is glorious. I'd likely never have found it without the new democracy (IIRC a lot of his early stuff was self recorded & promoted) or the information tech that allowed me to simply enter his lyrics into Google. I heard a track in 1978 by The Motors, it was a B-side, and it took me 6-months of singing it badly to people for me to find out who it was, by which time the single had been and gone and, given the B-side wasn't on an album, was not likely to cross my path again. Luckily a mate had the single so I got the bus to his house with my cassette recorder, put the mic in front of his speaker, and pressed record. There's some magic in how hard music was to get in those days, especially if you were skint, but I think it's healthier today

Edited September 11, 2020 by Beedster

[Rich]

14 hours ago, visog said:

recorded music having no value

Bit bleak I know but suggest a counter argument
 

'No value' is entirely subjective. The counter argument is that just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's valueless. Your musical top 10 could well be my worst nightmare, and vice versa.

Live music, on the other hand, is in a right pickle. I'll definitely agree with you on that.