Featherweight amp head - advice much appreciated please!

[Jazzjames]

On 23/09/2020 at 10:28, Chienmortbb said:

The power amps in the Quilter and TH500. The TH500 uses the ICEPower 250ASX2 module that outputs 500W into 8R. Slightly more  but 50W is neither here or there. Any difference you hear is likely due to the Pre-Amp implementation. 

The Aguilar TH500 puts 250w into 8ohms and doesn’t kick anything like as hard as the Quilter. For sure the preamps are voiced differently but the Quilter has simply much more juice on tap.

[Dan Dare]

On 23/09/2020 at 09:28, Chienmortbb said:

The power amps in the Quilter and TH500. The TH500 uses the ICEPower 250ASX2 module that outputs 500W into 8R. Slightly more  but 50W is neither here or there. Any difference you hear is likely due to the Pre-Amp implementation. 

Are you certain about that? The 250ASX2 is a stereo module that gives 250 a side into 4 ohms or 500 bridged into 8. The Aguliar site states 250 into 4 or 500 into 8. I doubt they'd spend the extra on a stereo module for a mono head.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Dan Dare

[agedhorse]

8 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Are you certain about that? The 250ASX2 is a stereo module that gives 250 a side into 4 ohms or 500 bridged into 8. The Aguliar site states 250 into 4 or 500 into 8. I doubt they'd spend the extra on a stereo module for a mono head.

Their implementation is different than most others IME. It's just how they chose to use that part.

There is also a lot more to the IcePower specs than what's published, in fact most of the important information about the module resides between the lines, and requires a lot of experience to exploit safely, with high reliability. 

[Jazzjames]

On 26/09/2020 at 00:10, Dan Dare said:

Are you certain about that? The 250ASX2 is a stereo module that gives 250 a side into 4 ohms or 500 bridged into 8. The Aguliar site states 250 into 4 or 500 into 8. I doubt they'd spend the extra on a stereo module for a mono head.

Yeah I’m sure. I owned one for years.

[Chienmortbb]

On 25/09/2020 at 23:26, agedhorse said:

Their implementation is different than most others IME. It's just how they chose to use that part.

There is also a lot more to the IcePower specs than what's published, in fact most of the important information about the module resides between the lines, and requires a lot of experience to exploit safely, with high reliability. 

Quite correct as usual @agedhorse and I believe  your comments about the specs and what is published apply to a number of class D modules. I say this from experience.

[Chienmortbb]

14 hours ago, Jazzjames said:

Yeah I’m sure. I owned one for years.

Intersting. It does suggest that Aguilar are conservative about the power rating if they still use the 250ASX2. They use the 125ASX2 in the TH350, many that use that are quoting 500 watts. The video below explains a lot.

 

On 25/09/2020 at 23:10, Dan Dare said:

Are you certain about that? The 250ASX2 is a stereo module that gives 250 a side into 4 ohms or 500 bridged into 8. The Aguliar site states 250 into 4 or 500 into 8. I doubt they'd spend the extra on a stereo module for a mono head.

 

[Chienmortbb]

On 25/09/2020 at 23:10, Dan Dare said:

Are you certain about that? The 250ASX2 is a stereo module that gives 250 a side into 4 ohms or 500 bridged into 8. The Aguliar site states 250 into 4 or 500 into 8. I doubt they'd spend the extra on a stereo module for a mono head.

Yes see the video above.

[agedhorse]

11 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Quite correct as usual @agedhorse and I believe  your comments about the specs and what is published apply to a number of class D modules. I say this from experience.

There are many ways to skin a cat, what is critical is understanding the difference between real performance and marketing performance. There are also plenty of companies/designers that did not understand how the ratings were derived and how the protection schemes were mapped to the various performance parameters, so in order to keep their products from shutting down (or failing), some chose to derate the modules in order to make them work. This is true of several of the modules, where there are different levels of performance depending on the amount of engineering that a company was willing to invest.

Regarding the 250ASX2, there is a lot of hidden additional performance available provided the designer understands the intricacies of the part. I actually have a patent on some aspects of this as it relates to this part and it's based on close to 20 years of historical hands on design experience with IcePower products going back to some touring pro audio products I designed or consulted on. 

The more you know about a subject like this, the more you realize that you don't know... and the more interesting it becomes.

[Chienmortbb]

14 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The more you know about a subject like this, the more you realize that you don't know... and the more interesting it becomes.

That is so true.

[itu]

22 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The more you know about a subject like this, the more you realize that you don't know... and the more interesting it becomes.

This sounds so much like music. It's like: Now I understand a little bit more, how little I understand about music.