Alder or swamp ash?

[lownote]

I searched but couldn't find this question - if I've missed a massive thread, then please delete.

I am nosing around Sires again - fretless this time.  But I am confused about the body wood choice, swamp ash or alder.  I am confused because of conflicting online advice. Some sources say alder is heavier, darker, warmer, while ash is lighter in every way, weight and sonically.  Then  other sources say exactly the opposite!  Is it that ash is wildly inconsistent, some examples being darker in tone and heavier in weight, or what?  Is there a consensus?

[wateroftyne]

It's important to differentiate between ash and swamp ash. One is significantly heavier than the other, so think of them as different woods.

[Lozz196]

31 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

It's important to differentiate between ash and swamp ash. One is significantly heavier than the other, so think of them as different woods.

Whichever is the heavier one - as in used on 70s Fenders - I found it to have less lower mids, or at least that was the characteristic of all three 70s Precisions I had. Slightly tighter bottom end and more aggressive top end.

[ikay]

This website is a useful reference for tonewoods - https://zinginstruments.com/guitar-tonewoods/

Alder

Like basswood, alder is a lightweight type of body wood with soft and condensed pores.

The grain pattern takes on a swirl, where the larger rings and sections around the outside enhance the strength of the body. The result is a guitar with a complexity of tones.

It’s not too warm or too bright but lies somewhere in the middle range.

However, unlike basswood, alder can retain high notes and provide space for low tones. Basswood tends to soften the high notes, on the other hand.

Compared to basswood, an alder body comes with a wider scope of tones overall as well as fewer mid-notes than basswood.

Ash
Ash is one of the most common tonewoods for electric guitar bodies.

Ash is a tonewood that comes in two main types:

- hard (northern)
- soft (southern), commonly called 'swamp ash'

The most popular option is hard ash due to the bright tone and high sustainability. However, soft ash offers a warmer feel.

Fender claims to use swamp ash in many of their guitars in the 1950s.

Swamp ash tonewood comes from trees with roots below the water level in Southern swamps, so the wood is lightweight and porous.

The creamy color and bold grain pattern are more visually appealing than other wood types, like alder.

The scooped middle frequencies are bright and balanced, and the sound has more balance at the top. You can create a clean, transparent sound with single-coil pickups easily.

However, swamp ash is more difficult to find than alder or new ash.

Both types of ash tonewoods offer an open grain, which means the instrument also comes with a fair amount of preparation to make sure the grain is properly filled in the factory.

 

[hooky_lowdown]

If the bass is natural wood, than the replies here are totally valid. If however it's covered in thick poly then none of it matters as the poly will have a greater affect than the wood underneath.

[wateroftyne]

12 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

If the bass is natural wood, than the replies here are totally valid. If however it's covered in thick poly then none of it matters as the poly will have a greater affect than the wood underneath.

On the weight?

[bloke_zero]

23 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

On the weight?

I think hooky means on the sound! If you encase a vibrating mass in plastic then the plastic (poly) will have a large effect on the tonality of the mass as opposed to say nitro or wax or oil.  There are a lot of questions about how much wood affects the tone as opposed to pickups, electronics and strings, but as rational beings I think we'd agree that all these things play a part.

[bloke_zero]

On 13/09/2020 at 10:19, hooky_lowdown said:

If the bass is natural wood, than the replies here are totally valid. If however it's covered in thick poly then none of it matters as the poly will have a greater affect than the wood underneath.

A mate of mine swears that if it isn't an alder p-bass with nitro finish it isn't worth a look.

[hooky_lowdown]

I find it amusing when people talk about body woods and the affect on the sound. The body wood has the smallest affect on one's sound, the neck, or the thickness of the neck has a greater affect than the body wood. Even the electrics have a greater affect than the body wood to the sound you get from your bass when amplified.

[Dan Dare]

Uh oh. Tonewood...

[BigRedX]

On 13/09/2020 at 08:44, wateroftyne said:

It's important to differentiate between ash and swamp ash. One is significantly heavier than the other, so think of them as different woods.

Although "swamp ash" is simply any species of ash grown in a swampy environment. Therefore as you can see simply knowing what species of wood you have is only part of the picture. Ideally you also need to know the growing environment and the age of the tree when it was "harvested". And even then because every piece of wood is different you still don't know how it's going to affect the sound of the bass when in conjunction with all the other factors.

Buy the bass that is the right weigh for you and if you are going to have one with a finish where the wood can be seen, what you consider to be an attractive grain pattern. Those at least will be known quantities at the time of purchase.

[wateroftyne]

4 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Although "swamp ash" is simply any species of ash grown in a swampy environment. Therefore as you can see simply knowing what species of wood you have is only part of the picture.

Of course.