Recording, impedance, Boss pedals and DI boxes

[wintoid]

I've been a bedroom player for a long time, and am turning my thoughts to recording my bass for the first time.  I have a reasonable setup, using Bitwig as my DAW of choice (love it), and an RME Babyface Pro FS as my audio interface.  The Babyface is supposed to have HiZ jack inputs for instruments, rated at 470 KOhm, but they seem to record a bit quiet.  I read that DI boxes are supposed to put out 1 MOhm, and was thinking that might solve the volume issue and improve the general quality, but I also read that Boss pedals all put out 1 MOhm, so I thought one possibility would be to get something like a Boss limiter, and that would give me real control over the volume hitting my DAW.  I'm not sure whether it's considered bad practice to record the bass post-effects, even if it's only a limiter.

I'd be really interested to hear any thoughts from those far more experienced than me!

[Dad3353]

50 minutes ago, wintoid said:

...I'd be really interested to hear any thoughts from those far more experienced than me!

Sorry, but this is not going to help you that much; I'll just describe how I record stuff with Reaper.
I don't worry too much about the input level in absolute terms, as long as I'm seeing a decent signal on my on-screen graphics. Different instruments, and different ways of playing can produce different levels, and any imported samples or clips will have their own levels. Before mixing, however, I usually 'normalise' all tracks, which makes them 'compatible', each having the same peak level (can be 0db; I usually prefer a bit less, so normalise to -3 or -6 db...). In the past, with analogue, tape systems, this could increase background noise (tape hiss and the like...), but with modern 24-bit recording, this is, in my view, a thing of the past. I prefer recording more on the low side, then normalising, rather than recording 'hot'.
I'd recommend trying this with your system, except that, in looking through the features of Bitwig, it would appear that they (deliberately..?) don't offer a 'Normalise' treatment..! Seems odd to me, and they doubtless have their reasons, but I'd be a bit stuck without it for mixing tracks with disparate levels. Still, that's how I deal with low input levels. To me, they're preferable to 'hot' levels (within reason, of course..!). As stated, this might not help much, but that's how I deal with things. There's nothing wrong with your interface; it's fine. 

[TwoTimesBass]

Your Babyface should be absolutely fine to record bass using the Hi-Z inputs, I've done in loads with an RME Fireface and passive bass. I don't have an RME soundcard with me at the moment, and i'm not sure if it's the same for the Babyface, but there is a software adjustable option in the RME software to switch the inputs between Hi Gain/+4dB/-10dB. This might be worth a look? I've certainly been able to easily hit clipping on the input level with a passive bass on the Fireface.

As Dad3353 says above, these days it's not as crucial to light up the meters if you're recording digital at 24bit, in fact it's good to leave space. Peak level during recording of around -12dB is fine.

Surprised by the lack of a Normalise function on your DAW, it's very common. Might be called something else though...

[Dad3353]

20 minutes ago, TwoTimesBass said:

...Surprised by the lack of a Normalise function on your DAW, it's very common. Might be called something else though...

S'what I thought, but I read through their doc a few times; no mention. On their forums, it's been requested as a 'feature', but it's not been taken up. Seems odd to me, too, but it's maybe a DAW for doing other stuff, really..? 

[TwoTimesBass]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

On their forums, it's been requested as a 'feature'

I'll bet it has! It does look like Bitwig has a lot of features if you're looking at manipulating sounds and synth work rather than a traditional multitrack. I might just be getting old though... 😀

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 8, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Dad3353]

Good call ^^. Needs checking. 

[wintoid]

Thanks guys.  You're right, Bitwig is a strange fish.  I love it!  It's absolutely geared towards someone who's interested in synthesis (me) and much less towards someone who wants to work heavily with audio (unfortunately now also me!).

From memory, I switched the inputs from +4 dB to -10 dB and it was louder that way, but still pretty quiet.  I'll have to do some fiddling around to see how to switch from line to instrument, which sounds like it might be the issue, but I don't find RME TotalMix very simple to use, so I could easily have overlooked this.

[wintoid]

OK I checked and TotalMix has a little symbol of a guitar over the input into which I plug my bass, so I'm going to assume that I'm successfully using "instrument mode".  However, unlike @TwoTimesBass I am nowhere near hitting clipping with everything maxxed out and an active bass.

Edited September 18, 2020 by wintoid

[wintoid]

On 15/09/2020 at 13:11, wintoid said:

The Babyface is supposed to have HiZ jack inputs for instruments, rated at 470 KOhm

Turns out this is wrong, incidentally.  The Babyface has 1MOhm inputs.  So I'm guessing the pedal idea wouldn't have helped anyway.

[TwoTimesBass]

That's very strange... Just to rule a couple of things out, are you using a regular mono jack cable from bass to soundcard? And do both inputs give the same level?

[wintoid]

I literally own one bass cable . So the cable I'm using it the one I usually use between my bass and my amp (ancient Roland cube thing).  I just pull it out of the amp and stick it in the Babyface.

I'll give input 4 a go over the weekend!