Is pitch perception a universal human phenomenon?

[Woodinblack]

16 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

I mentioned 'piece of music' in the original comment, and the reply was centred around 'the song'.

OK, it applies to piece of music too. I was using song as a piece of music.

12 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

There are plenty of cover versions where the vocal melody only seems to bear a passing resemblance to the original and the rest of the arrangement is completely different. Think of all those "sensitive acoustic" versions of rock songs that appear to be popular as advertisement sound tracks at the moment. Often I'll be struggling to recognise the original song from this new "arrangement".

I wish I couldn't recognise the original. That is about my biggest hate of the last few years, some dreary whispy woman singing some song with all the emotion stripped out.

[Dan Dare]

On 28/09/2020 at 16:29, itu said:

A local violinist is a son of a concert pianist. While she was pregnant, she played a lot, naturally. Is it any wonder the kid, the violin player has a perfect pitch? Learning since -9 months of age?
Do you see this ability has anything to do with the surroundings? I think the perfect pitch has been there since the birth. Another thing is to use it. My friend's aunt has perfect pitch, but she's not musically talented. What a contradiction.

Probably wouldn't have mattered whether she had played whilst carrying him. If he has the genes, that's what matters. Of course, living in a musical environment is going to enable him to make the most of his abilities.

Not really accurate to say someone with perfect pitch is "not musically talented". They obviously have innate musical ability. They just haven't used or developed it.

[MacDaddy]

In western society we tend to have a sense of relative pitch. This can be tested with non-musicians by asking them to sing their favourite song. Without any musical reference even non-musicians tend to be in the right key.

Relative pitch can be developed, be it consciously or unconsciously, to such extent that for some musicians it is almost like having perfect pitch.

[Nail Soup]

40 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

In western society we tend to have a sense of relative pitch. This can be tested with non-musicians by asking them to sing their favourite song. Without any musical reference even non-musicians tend to be in the right key.

Relative pitch can be developed, be it consciously or unconsciously, to such extent that for some musicians it is almost like having perfect pitch.

Pedant mode: on

Wouldn't that be called absolute pitch (rather than relative) or something like that?

Pedant mode: off

[MacDaddy]

35 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Pedant mode: on

Wouldn't that be called absolute pitch (rather than relative) or something like that?

Pedant mode: off

Absolute pitch is just another name for Perfect pitch.

[Nail Soup]

1 hour ago, MacDaddy said:

Absolute pitch is just another name for Perfect pitch.

That makes sense, but I guess my point is why use the term 'relative pitch"'  for someone hitting the correct key/note when they have no reference point.

My understanding of the term 'relative' be it in music or anything else is some kind of distance from a reference point.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Hmmm.

So, the Bolivians;

Would they be able to discern that (for example) two A (440hz) were not out of tune with each other, and that if one were to gently de-tune one and not the other, they'd notice that, too.

Extend that to an 880hz A and a 440hz A played that simultaneously. I guess they'd  realise that the two were in tune, even if not what the (synthetic musical) relationship between the two tones was.

[ubit]

I knew a guy that was tone deaf so I guess he didn’t have this. 

[T-Bay]

Had a chance to do some very basic tests on this today with a few people at work. Using a recently tuned piano we tested people to see if the could recognise two notes played at the same time as being an octave apart or not. 100% of people tested (6) could do this every time without hesitation. Next we tried two notes one after another with a small gap and the person had to say if they were an octave apart or not. Very varied results, professional musician was 100% every time, one part time musician was right nearly every time, the other part time musician (me) was right about 80% of the time, other three were around 50% right. It was noticeable that it was easier when the second note was higher than the first, all agreed on this. We then tested our captive musician and he was 100% correct even when three octaves apart and a 30 second gap between first and second note. An interesting lunch hour!

[Nail Soup]

1 hour ago, T-Bay said:

Had a chance to do some very basic tests on this today with a few people at work. Using a recently tuned piano we tested people to see if the could recognise two notes played at the same time as being an octave apart or not.

Interesting test but.............. you've got a piano at work!?!

[T-Bay]

2 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Interesting test but.............. you've got a piano at work!?!

Yup, three in fact, including a mini grand, and guitars, bass’s, keyboards, amps, PA etc etc. One of the few benefits of working there at the mo. We have a decent staff band with lead and rhythm guitar, bass, drums, keyboard and even a horn section on a good day.

[paulbuzz]

With reference to the research referred to in the OP's post, the full paper isn't available without paying, but there's a video abstract that gives a bit more detail on parts of their study, and is very interesting (at least I thought so!)

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31036-X
 

[Maude]

On 30/09/2020 at 14:08, leftybassman392 said:

 

If this doesn't get your feet tapping then you've no right to be calling yourself a musician IMHO

 

Now I want to watch 'The Sting'. 

[leftybassman392]

6 hours ago, Maude said:

Now I want to watch 'The Sting'. 

Catchy isn't it. Joplin is widely credited with putting the rhythmic element of the music front and centre. Although I haven't tried it, I think it would be a great idea to learn the bass pattern for this piece. What makes it so catchy (of course) is the way the right hand does all the syncopation against a rock steady left hand.

As to The Sting, here's what you really need:

Enjoy!

[jrixn1]

25 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Joplin is widely credited with putting the rhythmic element of the music front and centre. Although I haven't tried it, I think it would be a great idea to learn the bass pattern for this piece. What makes it so catchy (of course) is the way the right hand does all the syncopation against a rock steady left hand.

This is interesting though, particularly from around 0m25s:

Composed 45 years before Joplin was born.

 

[leftybassman392]

3 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

This is interesting though, particularly from around 0m25s:

Composed 45 years before Joplin was born.

 

Indeed so. Thanks for posting.

It doesn't have the four-to-the-floor in the left hand (which is the real key IMHO), but very interesting nevertheless.