Current CITES situation?

[cetera]

There is a bass I'm thinking of asking a friend in the US to pick up for me from a seller local to him and then sending it to me here in the UK. It's a 30 year old Hamer with ebony fretboard.

Will he have any problems shipping it re: CITES. Not sure of the current situation/thinking.... but I believe ebony is ok?

Cheers for any help/advice!

Edited September 26, 2020 by cetera

[casapete]

This discussion from Sept 2018 was something I was reading the other day on 'the Fretboard', hope it helps. Cheers.

 

 

guitars4you said:

As far as I know only Madagascar ebony falls under a CITES agreement - Applicable from sometime in 2013, so if the guitar is pre-2013 then CITES exempt - Not sure how any one can tell the difference between say Ceylon Ebony and Madagascar, so there is  a potential issue with customs not accepting what you claim

Remember if you are buying/selling within the EU, then no customs borders, so no CITES currently required

Believe this is causing issues within the Violin/String business

This would be a guitar from the 80s from the US. 

Should be fine - Need clear info on the receipt for customs purpose regarding the date - Not sure how you can specify which ebony though just by looking and like many builders they might have used different sources - Gibson use to use Ceylon/Si Lanka but don't recall when this changed

UK DEFRA contact for CITES if required
Tel: +44 (0) 3000 200 301 
Fax: +44 (0) 28 415 2510 
Email: [email protected]

Edited September 26, 2020 by casapete

[Maude]

Wasn't CITES relaxed or dropped on instruments lately? I seem to recall something being posted on here about it, maybe it was just relating to rosewood.

[S.F.Sorrow]

The restrictions on rosewood were relaxed. Or to be more presise: Exceptions were added for "finished musical instruments" and "finished musical instrument parts". Most species of rosewood are still listed in CITES Appendix II. The exception is Brazilian rosewood which is listed in the even more restricted Appendix I (and does NOT include the exceptions for musical instruments).

Madagascar ebony is listed in CITES Appendix II (but with no exceptions for musical instruments) which means export/import permits are needed. But I don't think ebony is really an endangered species. I think this CITES listing is connected to illegal logging of ANY wood in Madagascar rainforests rather than specifically aimed at ebony. After all, ebony from other countries is not CITES-listed.

With a 30 year old bass there's probably no proof of origin for the wood but there's a good chance it's Madagascar ebony. And if that's the case it will need CITES permits for import/export. But then again it might be ebony from somewhere else and be 100% legal for import. That's the problem with old guitars. You can't always tell and if any problems occur in customs the burden of proof will be on YOU.

I would recommend contacting your local Environmental Agency about this rather than ask advice on a bass forum. I would personally not risk shipping guitars containing exotic woods without the proper documentation. And there's an ethical aspect to this too of course.

Edited September 26, 2020 by S.F.Sorrow

[cetera]

An excellent update (for me!) just received from APHA re:CITES and Ebony... woo hoo!!

 

Dear Gary

 

THE CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED SPECIES

OF WILD FAUNA AND FLORA (CITES)

EC REGULATION 338/97 & 865/2006 – IMPORT / (RE)-EXPORT PERMIT

 

 

Please note - the only Ebony listed on CITES is Diospyros spp from Madagascar, and this only applies to logs, sawn wood and veneer sheets. As the Ebony on your guitar is on a worked item (like ebony keys on a piano), it is does not fall under the controls of CITES – therefore you do not require any CITES permitting for movement of the instrument out of the US or into the UK.

 

Do ensure however that there is not Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra) on the instrument, as permits will be required for this wood species as it is CITES Appendix I, EU Annex A, but any other rosewood species (Annex B listed) on the guitar should not now need permitting as their weight within the instrument will be under 10kg following the new rulings at the conference of parties in 2018.

 

Kind regards

 

Simon