Jeff Berlin speaks

[ARGH]

Maybe everyone should read the whole interview with Thunes (in Wictors book)...before painting him as bitter...

Thing is,how many of us are fulltime workers...a ton less that 'Casual hobbyists' (I love AJ) on here...

And if we actually gave as much as classical musicians do to study and practise,we would all be a hell of a lot better. Yeah I know we dont play Wagner,or Mozart,but if we approached our instrument with the same dilligent mindset,I dont think we'd be having time to post on here,navally dissing something so few of us can actually do.

Edited March 18, 2009 by ARGH

[ARGH]

[quote name='Eight' post='437664' date='Mar 17 2009, 06:49 PM']Ah cool.

I think the reputation of music theory has been ruined by the old school piano teacher type person, who looks down on anyone who doesn't want to learn every nuance of theory and just enjoys playing (and may do pretty well for themselves in that). I thought they were a dying breed, but I wonder if Berlin is one of them.

That kind of attitude does nothing to encourage people to see theory in the right light and to consider it for themselves. You just get people's backs up.

Edit: Forgot I wanted to say that how you judge yourself is regardless of whether you choose theory or not. Its important to be able to be realistic about your abilities, know where you're weak and choose whether to do something about it. I can no more judge my potential based on Bach's knowledge of theory than a non-reader etc. can judge theirs based on Jimi Hendrix.

Edit 2: I realise Hendrix placed that hideous six stringed instrument, not a respectable bass such as the fine folk here.[/quote]
I came up against that,but its not old school banging about theory,its about the traditional position of instruments..Bass does this,Sax does that,Violas do...etc etc

Thats the mindset you are fighting against,I was..things are diffeent,but the standards of acceptable learning,and in some cases education are falling.

[ARGH]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='437631' date='Mar 17 2009, 06:00 PM']Seems to me that Jeff Berlin only teaches/advocates one aspect of being a pro - technical/musical ability.[/quote]
Would you let an unqualified idiot rewire your house? Fit a Gas central heating system in?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='The Funk' post='437923' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:20 AM']Absolutely. If he ever wonders why he's not more in demand, those might be two of the answers. If he ever wonders why Tal Wilkenfraud gets better gigs than he does, again, that might be two of the answers. At least she looks like she's enjoying herself, goofy as she looks.[/quote]

JB has always struggled with that aspect of music around musicality. He is a tech-head and, despite his protestations to the contrary, he still thinks that it is all about technique. His abilities to play the bass chordally are exceptional but he doesn't get that the sound of a bass playing chords is commercially unpopular - in short, it really only appeals to other bass tech-heads who can point at him and go wow. His efforts to try and get himself w gig playing his chordal bass thing with Bonnie Riatt or Norah Jones show a lack of insight. If he believes that the sound of a bass playing chords and counter-melodies is attractive, then his integrity is admirable but I can't help feeling that his apparent inability to see the musical whole is his undoing. Objectively, his bass playing is not actually a particulalry attractive (i.e. pretty) sound and its addition to a Norah Jones track wouldn't enhance it. If Norah Jones poducers want chords, there are a million credible guitar players that will do the job better than JB and make a positive difference to the product.

I have always wondered, if he is so set upon getting his bass onto songs like Riatt's et al, why he doesn't do a CD of music that features a vocalist instead of a string of gunslinging jazzers. But keeps on reeling out these bass-orientated fusion fests. He complains about producers not taking risks and yet fails to take those risks on teh cds he produces.

I have only seen one Tal video and she is, frankly, more in the pocket than JB. Why would't she gig more?

And yes, his image does militate against his commercial ambitions (as does mine - my audition for Take That resulted in a provisional offer of the gig but, as I refused to shave my beard off, they moved on - curses, foiled again!).

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='438041' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:25 AM']my audition for Take That resulted in a provisional offer of the gig but, as I refused to shave my beard off, they moved on - curses, foiled again!.[/quote]


It's a shame Bilbo, because we all know you've got the moves.

[ARGH]

I have to say Bilbo..in my genre of playing,producers are actually trying to bring back the idea of a ryth section,actually teaching Bassists what the instrument can do rather than double the guitar all the time.

[XB26354]

What I always think, even when I listen to the old stuff with Bill Bruford, is that his playing is technically very clean and impressive (e.g. Palewell Park, 5G, Water On The Brain), but actually sounds crap. It does nothing for me at all. What is the point learning what he has learned only to sound crap. I like jazz and even (gasp) some fusion, but only when music is the point rather than a crappy tone and way too many notes/chords etc. This is strange as from the way he talks about education and the music industry you'd think he was a revered custodian of the worldwide bass community rather than a marginalised, anachronistic player with seemingly no sense of taste. Oh and his solo albums are pretty awful musically

[Bilbo]

[quote name='XB26354' post='438202' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:51 PM']Oh and his solo albums are pretty awful musically [/quote]

They have their moments and there are some very interesting things happening bass-wise but, as profound musical statements, they are not particularly successful.

[urb]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='438209' date='Mar 18 2009, 01:00 PM']They have their moments and there are some very interesting things happening bass-wise but, as profound musical statements, they are not particularly successful.[/quote]

Here's my review of his last album 'Lumpy Jazz' that went in Jazzwise a couple of years ago:


A hard-nosed and opinionated jazz educator, Jeff Berlin is both a bastion of good musicianship and a controversial figure in the world of virtuoso bassists. ‘Lumpy Jazz’ therefore resembles something of a puzzle. While his speedy execution and phrasing are both flawless, a tendency towards the clinical and emotionless, makes the notational bombardment sound exhausting. With supreme support from Drexler, who is as good on double bass as he is on piano, and shimmering percussive layers from Gottlieb, Berlin has two very sympathetic band mates. It’s on the scary-fast ‘Everyone Gets Old (if They Have The Time)’ that this trio’s power and skill can be heard best. Yet despite the obviously high level of playing here it’s Berlin’s ‘chorused’ bass sound, (an effects pedal that essentially ‘sweetens’ the tone) that is all pervading, and by the fourth or fifth song, begins to become sickly. The one thing that really defined the iconic Pastorius’ style was the spaces he left between phrases, and it’s something Berlin would be advised to use more of himself, as by the end of this bass marathon, the notes per-bar have coalesced into a single, rhythmic plane, that has a touch of jazz-sermonizing about it.

I think that covers it...

M

[Kiwi]

well as far as Bilbo's comment on Jeff's backing vocalists, I'd agree about him doing his own thing with a vocalist. BUT, it would require him to collaborate rather than fulfil the role of consultant maestro. Having said all that...

Jaco + Joni.

How much more perfect could it get? Musically? Commercially? Critically?

Maybe Jeff should have gotten in with Eva Cassidy when she was still alive, that would have been a nice combination I think.