Boss GT-1000 Core.

[Osiris]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

One example: if you want to have other pedals in a parallel loop with the Stomp you need to assign one of the blocks to the loop, right? So two loops = two blocks assigned leaving you just 4 (the same as a Zoom MS-60B) for your effects. Ok that will often be plenty, but not always e.g. you want to set all your patches up with an hpf at the start and a limiter at the end and maybe a couple of EQ options with tailored mids. Well that's your 4 blocks gone already.

I've got a couple of questions and clarifications about the above scenario.

A recent firmware update means you no longer need to use a block for the external loop, you just use the 'between block' thingies, whatever they're called, as you would for splitting the signal or assigning a crossover.

The Stomp only has connections for 1 external loop. Does the Boss have 2? Regardless, does anyone really need more than one loop? I'm asking with with gigging or studio needs in mind rather than just messing about at home for your own pleasure where it doesn't really matter. How many people actually need 2 external loops? 

So that's no blocks used so far (although granted, prior to the recent update it would have cost you a block). HPF can be assigned on the global EQ so again, you're not using a block for that. 

Why a couple of EQ options? Why not just use one of the many options to give you the control you need? Or use the preamp on your bass? And don't forget the 'free' global EQ too.

And then there's your limiter, which by my reckoning is only 2 of the 6 blocks used. 

For my minimalist needs 6 blocks is more than enough even when using amp & cab sims for IEM patches. An amp & cab block, a compressor, some low gain drive and a harmoniser for transposing down. HPF and LPF on the global EQ and still 2 empty blocks per patch. But I appreciate that some other people have more complex demands for their sounds. 

[Al Krow]

Folk who like to run some of their pedals in parallel, rather than in series, do often use one or more fx loops which is why we have kit such as this being used by our fellow BC'ers (this one has 3 loops):

With the Core if you were only needing one loop then you can actually use the other as an aux in - now that is neat!

Its more modest power consumption compared to the Helix kit will also come in handy if you want to pair the Core with your other favourite pedals using just a single PSU without needing to invest in something like the Ciocks DC7.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Al Krow

[krispn]

Heston Blumenthal’s*  review seems to imply that the limited bass amp options and 35 bass specific presets are a god send because he likes to sculpt, tweak and create (the same) massive tones from scratch. For £600 I’d want him round my gaff programming it and cooking my dinner!
 

*Sorry it was Patrick Hunter he must have had his hair cut...probably from all that “compensated for his time” money boss gave him! “Compensated for his time” Is that how YT influencers describe getting paid now? FFS

[Cuzzie]

It certainly is interesting, and it’s always good to have ‘spare’ on tap to use, but it is still approx £2-250 more than a stomp.
Using the cost/value logic (which is often brought up) it needs to be approx 50-60% better to be of decent value-or of course it could just be your preferred format, and you absorb the cost because of it, which is fine.

Using the same metrics the Fractal FM3 which has 48 blocks (still has 3 footswitches and about the same number of knobs and Just as many of not more cabs/sims etc) is equally as good value At about 50% more than the Boss.

The power supply is a non issue as you can use an extension chord (which i am sure everyone has) and a True Tone One Spot Plug which does for 1700mA and costs £20 - so no need for an expensive power brick.

Its noice to have choice

 

[Al Krow]

Agreed it's good to have choice! And depending on the feature set you want, there does seem to be a nice hierarchy of price and capability evolving in the 'compact' and 'super compact'  multi-fx space and you can slot in at the right level for your individual requirements:

Compact

• DG / Neural DSP
• Fractal FM3

Super Compact

• Boss GT 1000 Core
• Helix Stomp
• Zoom B1-4

Obviously plenty I've missed off that list!

Not sure that cost / value was ever linear though i.e. you can pay a fair bit more for a marginal improvement and why a £2,000 bass is never going to be 400% better than a decent £500 bass. The entry point here is a Zoom B1-4 which is around £65 to your door and, having had both, I can say that the Stomp is definitely a big step up but certainly not a 6x better product than the Zoom.

On PSU surely it depends on how many other pedals you are wanting to power - but I might be missing a trick here?

Some key considerations in getting one of these rather than e.g. the Stomp are going to be whether the following features are of interest and whether folk would be willing to pay another £200, given these differences?

• 24 rather than 6 blocks (and the associated greater processor power that comes with this capability);
• a display that's 40% bigger (albeit monochrome rather than colour);
• access to the full Boss library of effects, but not yet as broad as the imitation of boss and other effects provided by Helix.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Al Krow

[CameronJ]

I see a couple of major issues with the Core:

Those with a Stomp already see major value in adding an external foot controller with at least 2 switches. That’s on a unit with 3 onboard switches and 6 blocks.

To those who are interested in the Core, surely operating 24 blocks with the onboard 3 switches will be a grim experience, unless Boss have done some serious UI wizardry (which I doubt). Even plugging in an 8-switch MIDI controller, you’d still only have control of 11 parameters, which is less than half the Core’s maximum block count. By that stage you’re defeating the point of buying a compact unit, and you’ll still probably be wanting more switches.

 

Then theres the fact that the full-sized Boss GT1000 which has been out for a few years now failed to gain mass appeal against the likes of Helix, Kemper and Fractal. It just hasn’t been in the same conversation, both in terms of its UI and the perceived quality of its amp modelling. The Core’s screen is using last-gen tech with monochrome pixelated graphics. Compare that to Stomp with its full colour display and intelligent UI layout which means you can glance down and know what’s what, even on a small screen.
 

This shot of the Core’s screen is reminiscent of my secondary school calculator:

 

Just imagine squinting at that on a gig.
 

Simply shoving the insides of a full-sized GT1000 in a smaller box doesn’t improve upon the product itself in any way other than form factor. Basically, if the original GT1000 didn’t interest you then why are you bothered about the Core? Helix still has far superior options in terms of the number of amp models available, which is even more significant when coming from the position of a bass player. To me there’s just no comparison.

I realise this sounds like I’m pooping all over Boss but I just can’t see the appeal!

[Woodinblack]

Interesting thing if you are a stomp user, but as an HXFX user, it doesn't have enough buttons!

And obviously 'blocks' is a totally arbitrary thing, just a proprietary way of dividing your processing time up. Especially when it comes to DSP, a lot of guitar effects are increadably simple.

[Al Krow]

Cam - I think you're overplaying the competition to date in terms of Fractal, Headrush, Kemper and Boss. From what I've seen there have only been two players in town over the past 3 years in terms of units shifted: Helix in the mid-market and Zoom at the budget end. 

And as for amp & cab models - they are potentially much less of an interest to those of us who are happy with our amp and cabs (e.g. Helix HX Effects owners).

I agree the display graphics are better on the Stomp , but the Core has a screen that is almost double the size of the Stomp and the pic below is a better indication of what we'll be seeing at a gig. That would work just fine for me on a gig - I just need to know which patch I'm on and be able tweak basic parameters if absolutely necessary. No intention of doing any heavy duty patch editing live - nothing better to kill song flow IME! 

The Core's twin loops and bigger screen are both really "nice to haves". Having angled stomp switches is just one of those little touches added by a brand that understands live musicians very well. 

But whether the Core catches on, I think it's going to boil down to two things:

1) will it deliver a noticeable improvement in processing power? This from a Stomp user on TB: "about 4 blocks in total can easily exhaust the DSP when using one amp sim block. Amp+cabs are VERY costly on Helix, some models can hog 50% of the available processor. I have several "compressor + dirt + amp" presets, 3 blocks, and everything else is already grayed out." 

2) how much store will folk attach to being able to access Boss' own highly regarded suite of effects, many of which they have grown up with.

But it's good to see the Stomp owners defending their product in a way we've not really had to in the compact mid-market space since that excellent little product was launched a couple of years back (in fact announced almost 2 years to the day). Suggests to me that there might finally be some proper competition, which can only be a good thing for us end consumers.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Al Krow

[CameronJ]

I should point out that Stomp’s footswitches are also angled, lest anyone read this thread and assume they aren’t:

I will give Core points in a couple of areas though - I’d never personally need to have two loops, but they are useful in the sense that one of them can be repurposed as an aux input. 

And the larger screen does come into its own when combined with the 5 control knobs, so more editable parameters per page in nice.

Still, the only way I could see myself getting a Core is if they released an FX only version in the same form factor - then it would be a strong competitor in terms of price while being significantly smaller than HXFX. For consumers, it would then be a toss up between whether you favour smaller size (Core) over more footswitches and scribble strips (HXFX).

I’d happily run a Nano board setup with a Core FX into my Stomp.

[Woodinblack]

42 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

2) how much store will folk attach to being able to access Boss' own highly regarded suite of effects, many of which they have grown up with.

Not sure what you mean there? Boss's effects that everyone grew up with are analogue circuits, so there is no reason that Boss would be able to emulate them any better than Line 6 would. 

I don't think the issue is whether the system is better or not, I think it comes down to what is there. There are a lot of HX Stomps out there, so a lot of people get used to them. Something doesn't win because it is a bit better, unless it is a leap better than what was there. Momentum is an important thing. As is cost.

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Not sure what you mean there? Boss's effects that everyone grew up with are analogue circuits, so there is no reason that Boss would be able to emulate them any better than Line 6 would. 

I don't think the issue is whether the system is better or not, I think it comes down to what is there. There are a lot of HX Stomps out there, so a lot of people get used to them. Something doesn't win because it is a bit better, unless it is a leap better than what was there. Momentum is an important thing. As is cost.

Totally agree with the last bit and that Line 6 have first mover advantage!

I suspect Boss may be able to get a little closer emulating their own effects, particularly the more recent digital ones, than someone else though? 

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, CameronJ said:

I realise this sounds like I’m pooping all over Boss but I just can’t see the appeal!

Most of that is how i feel, certainly  when it’s being compared to the Stomp. It looks like a good unit (we dotn really know yet), but those saying they will jump ship based on seeing one or two guitar reviews will probably re think once the euphoria has died down and the specs have been discussed more. 

In its favour, for me, is the larger screen. I think that will be easier to read on a gig, and as already mentioned i like the input meters (as small as they are). I guess it is still on its first FW though, it could improve like the Helix did. 

As for running out of steam with just 4 blocks. Anyone found this? I dont believe its ever going to be an issue for 99% of users. Ive not read anyone maxing out the DSP with Just 4 blocks unless they are trying to, certainly not in the huge Helix threads we have on here as far as i can recall. 1 user’s true or false statement is hardly a reason to sacrifice the other plus points of the Stomp IMO. If there were widespread reports maybe, but as ive never run out of steam its a non issue for me. 

I’d much prefer a broader sweep of manufacturers pedals than just mostly Boss. Still, it does have the BDDI so it would do me if i was still playing bass. It would be great to get a comparison between the B1-Four/Stomp and Boss versions. 

The BIG issue i would have is no dedicated headphone amp. This would mean no matter what instrument I’m playing i wouldn't buy this. I rely on this so much with my Stomp (and Zoom’s), and that the price of the Boss buying even more gear to get back to where i was is not an option i would consider. 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

The BIG issue i would have is no dedicated headphone amp. This would mean no matter what instrument I’m playing i wouldn't buy this. I rely on this so much with my Stomp (and Zoom’s), and that the price of the Boss buying even more gear to get back to where i was is not an option i would consider. 

One of the loops doubles up an aux in (and you still have a spare loop for other pedals) and there's a headphones out.

BIG issue sorted? 😉

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

One of the loops doubles up an aux in (and you still have a spare loop for other pedals) and there's a headphones out.

BIG issue sorted? 😉

Nope, not at all. I looked before I posted. Where’s the separate volume control for the headphone (unless its on the main volume control). What if (and i do plan on doing this) i want to use it as a headphone monitor as well as using the main out?

[Al Krow]

Just now, dave_bass5 said:

Nope, not at all. I looked before I posted. Where’s the separate volume control for the headphone (unless its on the main volume control). What if (and i do plan on doing this) i want to use it as a headphone monitor as well as using the main out?

The main volume would be the obvious starting point, given it's an output? Sounds like a perfectly good headphone amp to me.

In terms of you doing your head-in-with a headphone monitor AND main out...well I can't help you there.

[dave_bass5]

Just now, Al Krow said:

The main volume would be the obvious starting point, given it's an output? Sounds like a perfectly good headphone amp to me.

In terms of you doing your head-in-with a headphone monitor AND main out...well I can't help you there.

But the stomp has main volume and headphone volume, each on serperate knobs. Thats what a dedicated headphone amp means. Its not relying on the main output, and doesnt need to be programmed in to each patch (which i what i did with my HFX for headphone use). I cant see this on the Boss, but correct me if I’m missing it. 

Its possible to have dual concentric knobs, which is what i meant about it being on the main level knob, not controlled by it. 

Obviously i don’t want to do my head in, which is why i mentioned the headphone amp in the first place 😏

 

[Al Krow]

I'm missing a trick here Dave with what you're after. But that's probably 'cos I would be using it either as a headphone amp or as a pedal to feed an actual amp, and not both at the same time.

So one master vol control (top right dial) would be completely fine in that case.

As I said, it seems to be a perfectly good headphone amp for the way most folk would be using a headphone amp.

[Woodinblack]

29 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I suspect Boss may be able to get a little closer emulating their own effects, particularly the more recent digital ones, than someone else though? 

Why? What advantage would they have? I mean, certainly the modern digial ones, but noone likes anything that wasn't made before the 90s, so that doesn't help.

The circuit of all those effects is well known, copies of them are commonly available, I can't see any advantage boss would have in emulating those circuits over Line-6. 

 

[jrixn1]

10 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

But the stomp has main volume and headphone volume, each on serperate knobs.

 

Wait, where is the second volume knob on a Stomp?  This was one reason I didn't get one. Did I miss something?

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Wait, where is the second volume knob on a Stomp?  This was one reason I didn't get one. Did I miss something?

Ooops, haha, that’ll teach me. No it doesnt have two. No idea where i got that from. What it does have is the ability to use the volume knob to just control the headphone volume, and obviously output that through the dedicated headphone out, leaving the main outs to be set however you want them, and un effected by the main knob. Thats what i meant. I knew they could be separated somehow.

I feel a bit stupid now but my comment still stands, the Stomp seems to be ideal for MY use. I don’t want to go changing output volume of my Synth, once the overall output has been set i don’t want it touch it (the patches will of course vary) but i do need the ability to adjust the monitor (headphones).

[dave_bass5]

16 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Why? What advantage would they have? I mean, certainly the modern digial ones, but noone likes anything that wasn't made before the 90s, so that doesn't help.

The circuit of all those effects is well known, copies of them are commonly available, I can't see any advantage boss would have in emulating those circuits over Line-6. 

 

As there are quite a few Boss sims in the Helix it will be very interesting to hear how different the GT ones are. 

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I feel a bit stupid now but my comment still stands, the Stomp seems to be ideal for MY use. I don’t want to go changing output volume of my Synth, once the overall output has been set i don’t want it touch it (the patches will of course vary) but i do need the ability to adjust the monitor (headphones).

Mate - if your Stomp is hitting the mark, can't see any reason for you to change it.

I've highlighted the extra features on the Core - the additional processor power in particular, which is going to be the key incremental benefit over the Stomp IMO, as well smaller enhancements such as the twin loops not taking up precious blocks 'cos there are plenty blocks going spare on the Core (and doubling up as an aux in to provide a neat headphone / looper combo); and I like what I already know about the form (e.g. larger screen) and function of the Core a lot.

5 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

As there are quite a few Boss sims in the Helix it will be very interesting to hear how different the GT ones are. 

Agreed. If they are at all, which is Woody's point. I think quite a few are watching out for this. Another TB comment:

"Funny someone asked what this Boss Core thing will be replacing. If it has a decent phaser, and by decent I mean as good as my little Phase 95, then I am in. Been trying to cop a sound from my big board with a HX Stomp and the phaser, even though it’s a Phase 90 copy doesn’t even cut through at all. So, yes, I may be selling a HX Stomp and getting a Core for 1 effect because for some reason it's just not right on the Stomp."

[krispn]

I’m just wondering if the better the chipset and a second loop outweighs all those flaws that were listed by the migration initially. 
 

There was a discussion on here where some of the migration to HXFX was driven by the larger footprint the HXFX being able to provide users with banks of 4 effects and EQ settings separately set up which they felt would make the HXFX a breeze to use live over and above the more limited layout of the stomp which the Core doesn’t address (but it may use a similar multiple effects assigned to a footswitch type set up like the stomp.
This ease of access / layout of the HX Effects was given as a reason folks switched from the stomp to HXFX going from the multiple reasons I’ve read.

It was suggested that not needing to connect up an additional foot switch, midi or otherwise was a bonus on the hxfx as were the scribble strips. Ironically folks talked about using no more than the 6 main effects such as comp eq drive delay/modulation so 20+ banks does feel like overkill for a vast majority of users but it’s good to have the DSP - ikely explains the price. 
 

Ultimately the form factor of the hxfx  with the additional footswitches and the ability to have a bank of patches on the scribble display was a big plus over the smaller stomp. Basically using the hxfx like a stand alone pedal board was the big win for those who migrated.

Any potential Core customers/users feel like they might be losing out if the went ‘back’ to a small stomp sized unit with only three buttons?

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, krispn said:

Any potential Core customers/users feel like they might be losing out if the went ‘back’ to a small stomp sized unit with only three buttons?

I am literally not a Core customer because of that reason. Anything with fewer buttons than is not really that useful.

[krispn]

Just reading that the Core won’t have any of the new SY synth engine sounds available so not too much has changed in porting the unit to a smaller form factor which may leave a lot of fans/folk a little disappointed. You’d have though a mega corp would deliver their new tech into their latest gear and along with it more value to the customer. It looks like those of us wanting to get a good filter and synth sound will now have to factor in the cost of two extra pedals on top of an already eye watering £600 considering the cost of the competition.
Come on Boss give the fans what they want.