wateroftyne Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said: For me the thing about prog, and Yes especially, is it sounds like a bunch of strangers doing their own thing in different studios and then a producer stuffs it all together into a few tracks. Sounds like they were trying a bit too hard too shut out any blues vibe and crowbar in as much jaaaazz and classical influences as poss. That's how I fee about a lot of neo-prog (including latter-day Rush), but with the likes of Yes, Genesis etc. it's actually songs - even if the arrangements are complicated, there's a decent tune behind it. Edited October 4, 2020 by wateroftyne 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 17 hours ago, Beedster said: I’m guessing they’re an acquired taste? Don't worry about it. There's loads of bands I don't like but I've realised that it's ok to not like something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 The very fact that they all had different influences, and brought them all to the table, to my mind, explains precisely why Yes music is unique, and so uniquely excellent. In the 70's anyway.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: That's how I fee about a lot of neo-prog (including latter-day Rush), but with the likes of Yes, Genesis etc. it's actually songs - even if the arrangements are complicated, there's a decent tune behind it. There is a thing with certain modern prog groups where there will be key or time changes for no apparent reason and it feels like they are just "trying to be prog". You never get that with the earlier groups as they weren't trying to be anything 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 16 hours ago, wateroftyne said: Big Rush and Genesis fan here, since my teens. I could never get into Yes. Anderson’s voice, the flowery lyrics, skittish tunes, and dodgy clothes put me off for decades. Then... something clicked about three years ago. No idea what, but that was it. I love ‘em now. Maybe start with Drama (controversial maybe). By the time you’re at one with Awaken, you’ll realise it was all worth the effort. So this morning I am going to be cutting wood on the garden with Drama on the headphones. I will give the whole album a fair hearing and report back........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 18 hours ago, Beedster said: I’m guessing they’re an acquired taste? If you weren't such a long standing poster here, I'd say slating Yes on BC is pretty much trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Drax said: If you weren't such a long standing poster here, I'd say slating Yes on BC is pretty much trolling I wouldn't have thought so. In fact I would think that is the default position. When it comes down to it I would imagine the majority of people don't like Yes. Certainly when I was at school and just after when I really liked them, most people I knew didn't. Edited October 4, 2020 by Woodinblack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Always good to listen to stuff outside your normal play list but not compulsory to like anything no matter how highly regarded the musicians may be. I listen to all kinds of 'unfashionable' music from 70s pop to math metal. One genre I really struggle with is Jazz though. Try as I might it just doesn't float my boat although I nearly liked some acid jazz once. I happen to really like Yes but then I rather grew up with them, the very first LP I saved up for and bought was Close To The Edge. Goodness knows how many Yes gigs I've benn to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: I wouldn't have thought so. In fact I would think that is the default position. When it comes down to it I would imagine the majority of people don't like Yes. Certainly when I was at school and just after when I really liked them, most people I knew didn't. Totally agree they’re unknown in the wider world but Chris Squire is venerated on here by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Drax said: Totally agree they’re unknown in the wider world but Chris Squire is venerated on here by many. I don't mean unknown (although obviously they are), I mean of the people that know them I suspect that more people dislike them than like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: I don't mean unknown (although obviously they are), I mean of the people that know them I suspect that more people dislike them than like them. For sure, totally agree. I guess my point was that starting a thread on here bemoaning them has more than a whiff of mischief, and predictable results See also Jaco, jazz (daily), range rovers, cyclists, music stands etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Beedster said: So this morning I am going to be cutting wood on the garden with Drama on the headphones. I will give the whole album a fair hearing and report back........ As a close friend said to me after coming to see my band for the first time; 'Not as bad as I thought it was going to be" First up, I really wish I still had my C64. There is some sublime bass playing and tone on there. Given it's the definitive Ric tone to my ear, someone will be along soon to tell me it was played on a Wal, Jazz or worse........ Second, it was OK musically. I can see why people like them, but I can equally see why people don't like them Third, there were sublime moments - the harmonies, the rhythms, the bass tone - but there were some ridiculous moments as well, the wedding march in the first track just seemed one of those 'did it because we could' as opposed to 'did it because we should' things. I also found the production on the keyboards and most of the guitars pretty awful, but then again, that's how it was at that point in time. But overall I felt that in about 40 minutes of tracks there were 10 minutes of sublime music and 10 minutes of the opposite, with 20 minutes of average. The sublime and not so sublime were unfortunately not, as is so often the case, isolated in sublime or ridiculous tracks (e.g., Long & Winding Road versus Octopus' Garden), but spread evenly across the whole album. I feel the need to sit down for a few days at my desk and edit the album to put all the sublime bits into three or four tracks! And if I compare to Rush, yes, I see similarities (perhaps why WoT suggested this album). I still feel that Rush have a stronger song focus. Would I listen to it in the car on a long journey? No Would I listen to it loud on my hifi with a beer or two or decent bottle of red when the girls are all out: Yes, production is great Would I like to play in a tribute band doing this stuff: Hell yes Am I going to try another Yes album: Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Beedster said: Am I going to try another Yes album: Yes Oof... Personally I’d go Close to the Edge or Fragile... 🙂 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Drax said: I guess my point was that starting a thread on here bemoaning them has more than a whiff of mischief, and predictable results No, not at all, genuinely wondering whether I was missing something, if I was going to troll I would have chosen one of the contemporary virtuoso bands, Snarky Puppy etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Oof... Personally I’d go Close to the Edge or Fragile... 🙂 Thanks, Fragile was also a good friend's recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Oof... Personally I’d go Close to the Edge or Fragile... 🙂 Thanks, Fragile was also a good friend's recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Geoffrey Downes (keys on Drama) is no Rick Wakeman for sure. If you are liking the newer Yes then maybe give Fly From Here a go? IIRC some of the tracks date from around that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, ead said: Geoffrey Downes (keys on Drama) is no Rick Wakeman for sure. If you are liking the newer Yes then maybe give Fly From Here a go? IIRC some of the tracks date from around that time. He certainly isn’t. It’s like he’s wearing boxing gloves half the time. Part of the reason I suggested Drama to Chris is because - as well as it being a good record - it’s a little more direct than the classic stuff, with less flowers and faeries. It’s maybe an easier way in. The Fly From Here suite is lovely. For more latter-day stuff, Homeworld and Magnification are fab (IMO). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) Stuck the Yesstory Compilation on my mp3 player a while back when a Yes post prompted me. It had been i while since i listened to it, and i found it quite hard work. I'll give it another try this wet n windy afternoon... Zappa anyone? Edited October 4, 2020 by PaulThePlug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: He certainly isn’t. It’s like he’s wearing boxing gloves half the time. Part of the reason I suggested Drama to Chris is because - as well as it being a good record - it’s a little more direct than the classic stuff, with less flowers and faeries. It’s maybe an easier way in. The Fly From Here suite is lovely. For more latter-day stuff, Homeworld and Magnification are fab (IMO). Machine Messiah is definitely one of my favourite songs. Good shout ref Homeworld & Magnification to which I would maybe add The Ladder too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, wateroftyne said: Oof... Personally I’d go Close to the Edge or Fragile... 🙂 Agree. In my opinion the best 2 Yes albums. I always felt the Anderson/Howe/Squire/Wakeman/Bruford line-up was the best. To me that is Yes. Alan White was a worthy replacement for Bill Bruford, but after that I lost interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, wateroftyne said: Oof... Personally I’d go Close to the Edge or Fragile... 🙂 Fragile is better, strong start in Roundabout, and the album is far more coherent than the stuff I listened to yesterday (compilation so not surprising) and Drama, overall a bit more accessible I guess. Keyboards a different world (get the point re Downes versus Wakeman), obvious classical/orchestral influences on keys and guitars, and some of the changes feel quite folky to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnt Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) The thing about Progressive is that there can be huge variations in the music, not just between albums, but even between songs on the same album. So you can't take one album, never mind one song, and think you've heard Yes. You mentioned the song Going For The One, the title track of an album that also includes the very different Awaken and Turn Of The Century. Many have praised Awaken as their finest work, but I would disagree and go back six years to The Yes Album and its opening song Yours Is No Disgrace. The lyrics are more on point (anti-war) and the music is fresher, particularly the middle solo section. which is just a great composition, musically. It's in songs like this where we can more clearly hear what Chris was doing: he had a musical background as a chorister, and used counterpoint very effectively: more exciting than just sitting on the root, but more focused and relevant than walking bass in jazz. He developed a reputation for spending huge amounts of time in the studio, fussing over every note, but it got us results like the section after the 5 minute mark. The bass is loud, doing its own thing, yet still locked with the drums and supporting the music. Chris is doing this while singing complicated harmonies too. I'd never heard anything like it, and it's still something I aspire to. Oh, and 90125 is a great album too, I don't care who disagrees. 😝 Edited October 4, 2020 by bnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, bnt said: The thing about Progressive is that there can be huge variations in the music, not just between albums, but even between songs on the same album. You mentioned the song Going For The One, the title track of an album that also includes the very different Awaken and Turn Of The Century. Many have praised Awaken as their finest work, but I would disagree and go back six years to The Yes Album and its opening song Yours Is No Disgrace. The lyrics are more on point (anti-war) and the music is fresher, particularly the middle solo section. which is just a great composition, musically. It's in songs like this where we can more clearly hear what Chris was doing: he had a musical background as a chorister, and used counterpoint very effectively: more exciting than just sitting on the root, but more focused and relevant than walking bass in jazz. He developed a reputation for spending huge amounts of time in the studio, fussing over every note, but it got us results like the section after the 5 minute mark. The bass is loud, doing its own thing, yet still locked with the drums and supporting the music. I'd never heard anything like it, and it's still something I aspire to. Oh, and 90125 is a great album too, I don't care who disagrees. 😝 I'd go further to say variation even within individual songs! Yes, counterpoint, that's what I could hear and was referring to when I mentioned folk influences. Choral makes sense, Jethro Tull had an element of it as well (and were far more openly folky I guess). The bass so far is amazing, as I said, I want my C64 back, I can see why bands like Rush and Yes get a lot of airtime on BC while bands like Zep and Floyd - arguably their equals musically - don't, great bass players in both Jones and Waters, but in both Rush and Yes the bass is so front and centre of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Beedster said: First up, I really wish I still had my C64. There is some sublime bass playing and tone on there. Given it's the definitive Ric tone to my ear, someone will be along soon to tell me it was played on a Wal, Jazz or worse........ No, its certainly a Ric. However, I am not sure why having a commodore 64 is going to help with the listening experience? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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