Zoom pedal hack - anyone tried it yet?

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

Yes it wipes the pedal then loads whatever you choose to put on it. 

Without knowing how far through the install process you've got it's difficult to advise on your second question. 

ok got it, have to click on write effects at the bottom, doh, no problems for me, I made sure I clicked on all the B1on effects as well as the extra ones I wanted and all my own patches were still there sounding as they should.

Have to say, most the effects in the same category are basically the same, they're just got different settings, I downloaded some guitar amp sims and you can get them sounding the same as each other with a bit of tweaking, I suspect I could get the bass amp sims and distortion/overdrive effects sounding like the guitar ones if I did some tweaking, but hey, saves messing about

[andruca]

I've had some trouble trying some updates to my G1Xon. Thing is I couldn't get some bass effects in there (Bass OD, DI Plus and a couple others). They wouldn't show up and it'd hang when changing models with the up key (not the down key, it'd scroll and just show "bypass" as many times as missing bass models + 1). After 2 days of failure I realized I was using ZDL files from the MS-60B, not the B1Xon. As much as parameters are the same and the effects sound the same the ZDL files are not the same (i.e., the MS-60B's DI Plus model takes up 5 blocks space in the MS-60B while the B1Xon's takes 6). As soon as I took those effects from the B1Xon firmware everything went back to working like a charm.

BTW, I'm toying with some "Royal Blood on the cheap" kinda' schemes with my Zooms. Not bad at all. Just ignore the PitchSHFT or any other and use the BA Pitch, others won't work remotely as good on bass. All details in the video.

Most efficient setup (also the most effect slots available) is the MS-60B doing bass duties and the G1Xon doing the fake guitar part. But I still can use any of the 3 for any task. Just can't have guitar amps on the B3, but still, many of the included distortions/overdrives can do a decent job at that too.

Edited December 16, 2020 by andruca

[PaulWarning]

3 hours ago, andruca said:

I've had some trouble trying some updates to my G1Xon. Thing is I couldn't get some bass effects in there (Bass OD, DI Plus and a couple others). They wouldn't show up and it'd hang when changing models with the up key (not the down key, it'd scroll and just show "bypass" as many times as missing bass models + 1). After 2 days of failure I realized I was using ZDL files from the MS-60B, not the B1Xon. As much as parameters are the same and the effects sound the same the ZDL files are not the same (i.e., the MS-60B's DI Plus model takes up 5 blocks space in the MS-60B while the B1Xon's takes 6). As soon as I took those effects from the B1Xon firmware everything went back to working like a charm.

BTW, I'm toying with some "Royal Blood on the cheap" kinda' schemes with my Zooms. Not bad at all. Just ignore the PitchSHFT or any other and use the BA Pitch, others won't work remotely as good on bass. All details in the video.

Most efficient setup (also the most effect slots available) is the MS-60B doing bass duties and the G1Xon doing the fake guitar part. But I still can use any of the 3 for any task. Just can't have guitar amps on the B3, but still, many of the included distortions/overdrives can do a decent job at that too.

what settings did you use on the MS-60B?

edit ok just found them

Edited December 16, 2020 by PaulWarning

[andruca]

30 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

what settings did you use on the MS-60B?

edit ok just found them

Nevermind the gadget, effects sound the same and have exactly the same parameters in all 3 of my units. For bass I mostly use BassDRV (varying EQ, but close to flat, nothing extreme, gain at 75, blend at 75) and 160Comp (threshold at -20, ratio 10, gain 15 and soft knee). This produces a nice fat crunchy sound with my old ceramic Stingray5s. I turn on the AcBsPre before that to boost the input signal before the BassDRV when using my Star Bass (the bass used in that clip). Occassionally replace the AcBsPre in the beginning of the chain with either the DI Plus (MXR Bass DI emulation) or even the BaMetal (a bass oriented version of the Metal Zone) for a couple different more DJENT'ish crunch flavors. Still all around the same idea of fat consistent crunch.

Edited December 16, 2020 by andruca

[andruca]

For "guitar" I go BaPitch (fixed, octave up)+BaPitch (occasional 5th up, mix at 35)+guitar amp model (either BgCrunch, MsCrunch or VXJimi)+SuperChorus (stereo mode, allows for great L-R control). If using the G1Xon (one more effect slot) I'd add ZNR (you guessed it, the guitar signal path is DIRTY) and also keep the 2nd (5th) shifter on and blend it between 0 and 35 by lifting the expression pedal (so I don't have to go into on/off mode, therefore lose patch navigation abilities). No extreme EQ on the amp model, nor extreme drives (around 2/3). I also keep both BaPitch tones to ZERO, makes half the work of reducing roboticness (the other half is done with the distortion in the amp model after the shifters).

Edited December 16, 2020 by andruca

[andruca]

Funny thing is, with 115 effects loaded in my G1Xon firmware, I still have 152 free blocks according to the editor. Thinking of an average of 6 blocks/pedal I could still fit some 25 more effects in there. Does anyone know of any pedal count limit? 140 effects is MS-60B zone (142 in fact). Will definitely give the B1Xon effects list a look.

Owning the MS-60B first I've always looked down upon the B1on/Xon as less high end. WRONG! It's SO capable. And for anyone doubting about construction/ruggedness, well, last week my G1Xon took a 2+m (6-7ft) fall from a shelf. Hit the computer desk (IKEA kinda' stuff, left a HUGE triangular dent about 3/4" deep), then hit the floor, LOUDLY. For sure the hardest hit ever on any Zoom device I've owned (about a dozen). Still looks and works like new 😮

EDIT: best I could do, a G1Xon firmware with everything that comes stock plus 41 more effects, which is pretty much everything you'd need from the B1Xon (bass amps/preamps, BassOD, BassMetal, BassDist, all missing filters -Ztron, A-Filter, M-Filter, etc.-, Ba PEQ, Ba GEQ, many compressors and synths); also linking my MS-60B firmware (stock stuff minus minor useless crap, plus 13 guitar amps and the Ac Sim from the MS-60G).

custom G1Xon firmware with plenty of bass stuff (total 146 fx)

custom MS-60B firmware with 13 amps and Ac Sim (total 147 fx)

Also, here's a compilation point I put up with everything Zoom firmware editing and all my 6 "maxed" firmware versions for the B/G1[X]on and MS-50G/60B.

Edited December 19, 2020 by andruca

[funkydoug]

just to add to the collective experience of this...

I managed to add effects from the B3n to my G3n meaning I have an all-in-one pedal for bass and guitar . Also, I prefer the G3n's black look to the red of the B3n, just sayin'  

Initially I  tried to do it on a Macbook but couldn't. Once I fired up my old windows machine it was pretty easy. If anyone wants the detail of how I did it I'm happy to oblige as I get the feeling it would not be a walk in the park for everyone.

Edited February 11, 2021 by funkydoug

[Kirill]

OK, I got the MS 70 with v. 2.10 of software downloaded and it looks like the above mentioned method does not work with this new update. 

Anybody's got experience with 2.10 update yet? 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Kirill

[andruca]

20 hours ago, Kirill said:

OK, I got the MS 70 with v. 2.10 of software downloaded and it looks like the above mentioned method does not work with this new update. 

Anybody's got experience with 2.10 update yet? 

V.2.10 is the newest one. The Zoom Firmare Editor's page claims to be compatible with the MS-70CDR (I don't have 1st. hand experience with such device). That version came out at the same time as the 2.1 update for the MS-60B, which I own and can update OK. What's the symptom/error/impediment you get? I can't think of any possible way any firmware update/version will make the hardware itself not accept updates (unless the firmware you're trying to install is corrupted somehow or the pedal is not turned on in firmware update mode). Maybe if you give some more details we can be of more help.

Edited March 1, 2021 by andruca

[funkydoug]

I don't have the MS70 but my experience with the G3n - if it helps-  was that the 2.1 firmware did indeed prevent any of this working. I had to download and install the older firmware 2.0 and then it worked no problem. I was able to install any of the effects from the latest firmware though, by using the Firmware Editor to extract them from firmware 2.1 and then insert them into firmware 2.0 and save that as a modified v2.0 firmware which continues to work flawlessly. 

[Kirill]

On 01/03/2021 at 10:10, andruca said:

V.2.10 is the newest one. The Zoom Firmare Editor's page claims to be compatible with the MS-70CDR (I don't have 1st. hand experience with such device). That version came out at the same time as the 2.1 update for the MS-60B, which I own and can update OK. What's the symptom/error/impediment you get? I can't think of any possible way any firmware update/version will make the hardware itself not accept updates (unless the firmware you're trying to install is corrupted somehow or the pedal is not turned on in firmware update mode). Maybe if you give some more details we can be of more help.

I get the message that the device is illegal. And it is in the firmware update mode when I try to do it. So it looks like the 2.1 firmware version was designed so - to block this hacking activities.

[Kirill]

On 01/03/2021 at 10:30, funkydoug said:

I don't have the MS70 but my experience with the G3n - if it helps-  was that the 2.1 firmware did indeed prevent any of this working. I had to download and install the older firmware 2.0 and then it worked no problem. I was able to install any of the effects from the latest firmware though, by using the Firmware Editor to extract them from firmware 2.1 and then insert them into firmware 2.0 and save that as a modified v2.0 firmware which continues to work flawlessly. 

Looks like it is a reason. Could you please drop me a link to the 2.0 version application file, 'cause I just can't find it anywhere in the internet?

[funkydoug]

Mine was for the G3n rather than MS70. Pretty sure they're different Firmware.

I'll have a look and see if I can find yours but can't promise!

[funkydoug]

link to the G3n v2.0 firmware below ... no sign of the MS70 yet. The webarchive used here doesn't seem to have the MS70 for some reason unfortunately - at least I haven't found it yet

https://web.archive.org/web/20181022055543/https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/software/G3n_v2.00_Win_E_0.zip 

Edited March 2, 2021 by funkydoug

[andruca]

Yep, the "Illegal device connected" means a firmware-model mismatch. It happens even with identical hardware, say, between any guitar and bass model, there's a protection against that, even if it'd work (sad, I really wanted to transform my B3 into a G3 -fimware can't be edited in such models to add individual guitar FX-). You have to start from your model's firmware and add individual effect files extracted from other models' firmwares.

Edited March 3, 2021 by andruca

[Julio Checchi]

Hi everyone, i really hope this thread is still active. I tried this today on my B1on and mid installation my pedal just shut off. I got a timeout error and the download stopped. I went to plug in the pedal and all it says is "System error". No matter what i do it wont work. any help?

[andruca]

On 16/08/2021 at 04:12, Julio Checchi said:

Hi everyone, i really hope this thread is still active. I tried this today on my B1on and mid installation my pedal just shut off. I got a timeout error and the download stopped. I went to plug in the pedal and all it says is "System error". No matter what i do it wont work. any help?

 

Have you tried turning it on in firmware update mode? You'd have to hold both the up & down navigation keys with the B1on turned off, THEN connect the USB from the PC to turn it on. It should display some "Ready for firmware update" wait message (or similar, don't remember it textually). If you can get there you can re-flash the firmware you were trying to install (or the stock Zoom version).

 

Now, if it turned off during the update it might be that the USB port you're using doesnt't have enough power to feed the B1on, you could try a different USB port/bus (check your PC's specs) or maybe use an externally powered USB hub.

Edited August 17, 2021 by andruca

[funkydoug]

4 hours ago, Julio Checchi said:

Hi everyone, i really hope this thread is still active. I tried this today on my B1on and mid installation my pedal just shut off. I got a timeout error and the download stopped. I went to plug in the pedal and all it says is "System error". No matter what i do it wont work. any help?

Are you working from firmware 2 or 2.1 ? 
I found it didn’t work (in a similar way to your experience) when I had 2.1. It needs 2.0, in my experience.

[andruca]

23 hours ago, funkydoug said:

Are you working from firmware 2 or 2.1 ? 
I found it didn’t work (in a similar way to your experience) when I had 2.1. It needs 2.0, in my experience.

AFAIK 2.1 is the current version for the MS-60B. For the B1on model it's version 1.3.

[furym]

Is there a way to downgrade the firmware on the pedals? I have updated my MS-60b to v2.1 and get the illegal device error when trying the updater. Is there somewhere to download the v2.0 firmware updater for the MS-60b?

[andruca]

24 minutes ago, furym said:

Is there a way to downgrade the firmware on the pedals? I have updated my MS-60b to v2.1 and get the illegal device error when trying the updater. Is there somewhere to download the v2.0 firmware updater for the MS-60b?

 

Can't find anything in search engines. Still, "my" custom firmware (based on version 2.1) is right now working OK in my MS-60B. It consists of stock stuff excluding...

Ba Detune MarkB Ambience Bomber ModDelay

PhasedDly Spring63 St Bs GEQ TapeEcho3 Z-Organ   with these effects added from the MS-50G (guitar) model (mostly guitar amps)... BG CRUNCH DZ DRIVE BGN DRIVE Z MP1 MS CRUNCH VX COMBO FD COMBO HW STACK MATCH 30 TANGERINE VX JMI Z Dream RedCrunch Aco.Sim

Edited August 31, 2021 by andruca

[slickerbass]

On 31/08/2021 at 13:52, andruca said:

 

Can't find anything in search engines. Still, "my" custom firmware (based on version 2.1) is right now working OK in my MS-60B. It consists of stock stuff excluding...

Ba Detune MarkB Ambience Bomber ModDelay

PhasedDly Spring63 St Bs GEQ TapeEcho3 Z-Organ   with these effects added from the MS-50G (guitar) model (mostly guitar amps)... BG CRUNCH DZ DRIVE BGN DRIVE Z MP1 MS CRUNCH VX COMBO FD COMBO HW STACK MATCH 30 TANGERINE VX JMI Z Dream RedCrunch Aco.Sim

I have started playing with the ZDL format files now (previous worked on the ZD2 for newer Zoom). Will be posting more on my GitHub -heres a link to the B1ON work https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun/tree/main/B1ON/DerivedData/DecodeFirmware.

 

Those ZDLs were extracted from a custom firmware create via Zoom Effect Manager. I think we can extract all the ZDLs from a firmware then classify them. No idea how to create new ZDLs but I am starting to compare the different versions. I am 100% certain the bitmaps and parameters are encoded in the ZDL (just like in ZD2)

 

More as I find it.

 

 

 

 

 

[andruca]

21 hours ago, slickerbass said:

I have started playing with the ZDL format files now (previous worked on the ZD2 for newer Zoom). Will be posting more on my GitHub -heres a link to the B1ON work https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun/tree/main/B1ON/DerivedData/DecodeFirmware.

 

Those ZDLs were extracted from a custom firmware create via Zoom Effect Manager. I think we can extract all the ZDLs from a firmware then classify them. No idea how to create new ZDLs but I am starting to compare the different versions. I am 100% certain the bitmaps and parameters are encoded in the ZDL (just like in ZD2)

 

More as I find it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow man, thanks for taking the time. I do IT for a living and am fluent in Python so if you need a helping hand just let me know. OTOH I'm totally ignorant as to how Windows binary resources (such as Zoom's firmware installers) work. I'm giving this resource hacker a try, just in case it helps me understand it.

[slickerbass]

Hi. Sorry I hadn't signed in for a while - was too busy working on Zoom G5.

 

I made a lot of progress with the ZDL format - so we can know the FXID and GID now. Alas whilst we can use sysex to set the FXID I haven't found how to set the GID.

 

Which means you have to inject the modified FX in via full patch. And this is the way Tonelib and G1On (SysexTones) do it.

 

I have a G5n now for my birthday - so will be updating my pages for:

 

G1XFour 

B1XFOUR 

G3n

G5n

GCE-3 

 

and

B1ON

MS-70 CDR

 

And G5.

 

I group them because the first set is controllable and modified by Mungewell's techniques (and my derived works). These are ZD2 FX.

 

The 2nd set are harder to control but modifiable by Zoom Device Manager 

 

The 3rd series AFAIK are not injectable but are a lot of fun. Build like a tank but mine is in bad shape - the eBay seller was not as candid regarding pedals state as he could have been.

 

I have added Sysex for most of these to my wiki and check code in.

 

If you want to collaborate then hit me up via the issues tab.

 

My plans are

 

1 - edit some unboxing videos and first impressions on the G3n, G5n, MS-70 CDR.

2 - use the XML format from edit&share ro help check patch reverse engineering from G5. I am hoping this will give insight into pedal parameter assignment - this isnpossible on G5 (especially  the Z plane) and might throw some insight to the G(x)n series.

3 - release G5 control software

4 - explore the G5n and compare with the GCE-3 G5n emulation.

5 - update my b1xfour python (this determines type of pedal and reverse engineers content on the fly)

6 - Look into the MS-70 CDR but in processed sysex space. All of the work I seen so far is in raw space and this make the interpretation more complex. Of course good that it works but I prefer simpler approach.

 

I post on my YT - hope to get more regular again.

 

I don't have an Ms60 but I'd you have the cycles to trial some of the sysex and help populate the wiki that would be cool. I suspect it is ZDL FX.

If I get a chance I Will download the firmware and see if my tools can pull out content. But Barsik's code is better suited to aspects of it. If it is a ZDL base then the stuff I put in the B1On DerivedData folder is likely applicable.

[slickerbass]

On 02/03/2021 at 15:00, Kirill said:

I get the message that the device is illegal. And it is in the firmware update mode when I try to do it. So it looks like the 2.1 firmware version was designed so - to block this hacking activities.

I got the MS-70 CDR from Amazon with the latest firmware. The Zoom Effects Manager seems to still work. A lot of midi control works. But it is a lot less controllable than I had hoped. When I make time to look at it I will try to do more with it. Simply to day I was able to inject new firmware with latest official firmware installed. If you have any links to the older firmware I would love to test it. If you look at the Zoom Effects manager it seems the version I have is based on the later Zoom firmware. Maybe the base image has to be compatible with the pedals?