Beedster Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, LukeFRC said: I think the more important quality is the attack envelop of the note -rather than the sustain, though they are linked. Agree, that was in part the basis of my comment re my old Wal. It's all about energy, the world's most resonant bass can only do so in response to the energy put into it, it's not creating it's own. I get the argument that some instruments might simply soak up that energy resulting in no sustain but also no discernible improvement in other parameters, but is it possible that some basses transfer that energy in a different way, less sustain but a more pronounced envelope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I know I've done a few pit gigs where you see huge extended notes spanning many bars. Probably the only circumstance I can imagine it being useful tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Beedster said: Agree, that was in part the basis of my comment re my old Wal. It's all about energy, the world's most resonant bass can only do so in response to the energy put into it, it's not creating it's own. I get the argument that some instruments might simply soak up that energy resulting in no sustain but also no discernible improvement in other parameters, but is it possible that some basses transfer that energy in a different way, less sustain but a more pronounced envelope? but if you were modelling that energy, sustain in itself wouldn't be the main aim.... longer sustain would mean a longer lower peak ... which I guess would sound more compressed. A sharp punchy attack would use up more of the given energy... (probably flawed physics on display here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: but if you were modelling that energy, sustain in itself wouldn't be the main aim.... longer sustain would mean a longer lower peak ... which I guess would sound more compressed. A sharp punchy attack would use up more of the given energy... (probably flawed physics on display here.) Exactly my point (more flawed physics I'm sure, there's never a physicist around when you need one is there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, Beedster said: Exactly my point (more flawed physics I'm sure, there's never a physicist around when you need one is there) talking of flawed physics... noticed how purveyors of higher mass bridges suggest they both allow the vibrations to be better transmitted into the body, and also decouple the body from the strings vibration... at the same time! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Rereading the original post, I wouldn't say that bassists are "obsessed with sustain". Well, I don't know any who are. Sustain is an option, like preamps, 5 strings, fretless etc and like all options people will pick and choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 I'm surprised it's taken this long for compression to get a mention... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said: I'm surprised it's taken this long for compression to get a mention... Why are bassists so obsessed with compression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, chris_b said: Rereading the original post, I wouldn't say that bassists are "obsessed with sustain". Well, I don't know any who are. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to question the premise of the OP! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 04/10/2020 at 20:27, prowla said: Why do some bassists seem to be so obsessed with sustain? There y'go! In my favoured land of Rickenbacker basses a lot of owners say "fit a Hipshot bridge" to seemingly almost any question. I often ask what it brings and they say "More sustain.", to which I ask what they want that for... 56 minutes ago, Nail Soup said: I'm surprised it took this long for someone to question the premise of the OP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Beedster said: Exactly my point (more flawed physics I'm sure, there's never a physicist around when you need one is there) Physicist here How many MT do you want the gadget to yield? In seriousness, much good discussion (and good Physics) above, imo it is about energy transfer and dissipation - the rate at which input energy (fingers, pick) is wasted into the body, bridge, bridge body interface, pickup magnets damping strings etc. My lifetime bass problem has been too much sustain, how often do I want more than 1 ~ 2 bars sustain. Attack / decay envelopes and no dead or live notes are of much more interest to me in a bass. Why do some basses (Gibson SG and Kramer Alu neck) 'play themselves' - have 'boing' and others on the same strings are just 'lifeless'? Why do some P basses (insert bass of choice here) sound great, why do others sound 'naff', this applies to copies and the real thing. Edited October 6, 2020 by 3below grammar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, prowla said: Oops ..... you were on it pretty quick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 15 hours ago, acidbass said: Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I know I've done a few pit gigs where you see huge extended notes spanning many bars. Probably the only circumstance I can imagine it being useful tho. Even for this, you’d assume a regular J / P would be up to the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Drax said: Even for this, you’d assume a regular J / P would be up to the job? Not if it involves a sustained note on the 4th or 6th frets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 04/10/2020 at 08:53, simon88wilson said: Interesting question and I’m sure a lot of people will have a better idea than me but I have always seen sustain as a by product of quality craftsmanship. I couldn’t give two hoots over how long a bass sustains for but I have noticed the better put together basses seems to acoustically sustain more or so it seems. This. Or do people confuse more sustain with more or better tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, mikel said: This. Or do people confuse more sustain with more or better tone? They are two sides of the same coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, chris_b said: They are two sides of the same coin. Care to explain that Chris (pulls up comfy chair, opens bottle of red, cancels appointments for rest of day) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Beedster said: Care to explain that Chris (pulls up comfy chair, opens bottle of red, cancels appointments for rest of day) ..............might need a second bottle soon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 hours ago, chris_b said: They are two sides of the same coin. Really? Explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 08/10/2020 at 17:36, Beedster said: ..............might need a second bottle soon 6 bottles later and still no reply 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Beedster said: 6 bottles later and still no reply Basses with sustain would be easier to passably play after 6 bottles of wine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Beedster said: 6 bottles later and still no reply You will be getting sustain after 6 bottles though not of the bass variety, more likely through the 'bass' without a 'b' region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnt Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Well, if I think about sustain and tone, I hark back to my previous reply that mentioned how energy is lost, absorbed in to the body etc., and the properties of the material means that it doesn't happen evenly across all frequencies. Some frequencies sustain more than others -> there's your effect on tone. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwithvan Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 One example where sustain is very useful is when playing a line originally written for a bowed double bass. An orchestra I play with has plenty of such numbers when fast decaying notes just doesn't work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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