Bass & drums. Who leads

[Stub Mandrel]

To a point it depends on the song. Some are laid back, some need an 'urge'.

Usually I try and 'lock in' to the drummer  but I will push the tempo a bit if things start to drag.

[Skinnyman]

Who leads?

We both do. At different times in different songs. Sometimes I’ll add a little run down to a chord change, other times he’ll add a fill. Sometimes I’m pushing or dragging the beat and other times he’s doing it.

At least, that’s what I tell myself. The reality probably sounds like a one-man band falling down a flight of stairs. If I’m brutally honest, neither of us really gets the concept of “four”...

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

. . . . . .  if eveyone is trying to play ahead of the beat then what would happen?

IMO playing ahead of the beat doesn't work when everyone is doing it, or you all speed up. You have to have someone to be ahead of!

Leaning into the beat was my way of pushing bad or dragging drummers along and trying making the song sound more "alive". Thankfully I haven't played with a drummer like that for many years, but I can quite enjoy myself playing behind the beat, in the right band.

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

IMO playing ahead of the beat doesn't work when everyone is doing it, or you all speed up. You have to have someone to be ahead of!

Leaning into the beat was my way of pushing bad or dragging drummers along and trying making the song sound more "alive". Thankfully I haven't played with a drummer like that for many years, but I can quite enjoy myself playing behind the beat, in the right band.

I get it now. Good explanation. I seem to do that without really thinking about it. 

Dave

[StickyDBRmf]

Three pages in, no mention of "groove". 

[peteb]

41 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

Three pages in, no mention of "groove". 

Well it's connected to groove, but not the same thing. You can have a goove that is bang on the beat, or one that pushes or lays back.

Edited October 9, 2020 by peteb

[Dad3353]

23 minutes ago, peteb said:

You can have a goove that is bang on the beat, or one that pushes or lays back.

Which one would Michael be, I wonder..? 

...

 

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, StickyDBRmf said:

Three pages in, no mention of "groove". 

Interesting.

Curious to see what happens now that you've mentioned it 

Dave

[Stub Mandrel]

This could be helpful but he seems to have ahead and behind the wrong way round  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

It;''s instructive to listen without watching. It's not to hard to spot the changes but as he says in his comment it's easier to judge when the drums are behind.

[Owen]

On 09/10/2020 at 07:20, musicbassman said:

Bass player:  "Bass and drums are a symbiotic relationship of love and respect. No one needs to lead or follow because we are reading each other's minds. It is a beautiful thing"

Drummer:    "You queer or summat ?"

..... awkward........

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

This could be helpful but he seems to have ahead and behind the wrong way round  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

It;''s instructive to listen without watching. It's not to hard to spot the changes but as he says in his comment it's easier to judge when the drums are behind.

There used to be a great clip somewhere on YouTube of John Paul Jones demonstrating on bass the differences in playing, on, in front and behind the beat. Unfortunately, it was buried in the middle of a clip about 40 minutes long with JPJ talking about all sorts and the quality of the video was terrible. 

This is quite interesting if you want to learn more about this; a session guitarist talking about how to play guitar laying back on the beat 

 

 

[Nail Soup]

I'm still getting to grips with playing ahead/behind the beat, but I heard this today and though maybe the drummer is playing the snare a bit behind the beat. Whatever , it has a great feel.

So am I right, or do I need to go back to school ?

Edited October 21, 2020 by Nail Soup