How to mix a ONE guitar band in stereo?

[thebrig]

I play in an old-school R&B band covering bands such as Dr Feelgood, The Pirates, The Inmates, Nine Below Zero, etc, and we want to do some recordings of the band to use as demos and to post on our Facebook page, they don't have to be professional studio quality, because we want to try and capture our "live" pub-rock sound if possible.

I am a complete novice when it come to recording and mixing, but I do have a reasonable setup for our needs, I have a MacBook Pro with Logic Pro, GarageBand, and Reaper installed, I have a Mackie Onyx 2.2 interface, 2 x KRK Roket 5 G4 monitors, and I also have a Zoom R16 which I use to record the band in rehearsals.

I use four mics on the drums, two overheads (left and right), one kick, and one snare, I take the lead and backing vocals from the PA, close mic the guitarist's amp, and DI my bass, and the individual takes are reasonably good.

I then try and mix to the best of my limited knowledge but what I want to know is, how do I go about stereo imaging with just guitar?

Most of the advice I find online and on YouTube seems to be for bands that have two guitars and suggest splitting the two guitars left and right, bass and vocals in the centre, etc, 

We don't do any overdubs on guitar because we want to try to be as close to our live sound as possible, so do I put the guitar one side and the bass on the other which I've tried, but it doesn't sound great if I'm honest.

As I've said, I'm really just a beginner when it comes to recording, so please go easy on me. 😉

[BigRedX]

Personally I wouldn't bother. Most of the recordings of the sorts of bands you mentioned would have been in mono anyway. The need for stereo comes mainly from studio trickery and wanting to separate out similar-sounding instruments. Since your instrumental line-up is simple and you aren't doing any overdubs there's no need to separate anything out. Just make sure that the guitar is EQ'd so it doesn't swamp the vocals while there is singing. 

Edit: And do not pan the bass. It should always be in the centre for maximum impact.

If you have backing vocals they can be spread across the stereo, but even then I wouldn't go too wide with anything.

Edited October 6, 2020 by BigRedX

[Doctor J]

You could use a slap-back echo. Pan the guitar one side, the echo to the other. Listen to Live at Leeds for a great example.

Van Halen used to just pan Eddie to the left and let reverb fill the space.

Edit -> As BigRedX says, keep the bass in the middle, along with the kick drum, snare and lead vocals.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Doctor J

[thebrig]

Thanks for the advice guys, it looks that I've been doing it right so far, the only panning I do is with the overheads left and right.

Maybe I'm overthinking it too much. 🤔

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, thebrig said:

...we want to try to be as close to our live sound as possible...

 Imagine someone in the centre of your auditorium, listening to your concert. The stereo image would be that created by the placing of the backline, so that's what the panning of each track should be aiming for. Presumably the singer would be through the PA, with equal voice from each FOH column. The bass would be (typically...) beside the drums; as bass frequencies tend to be non-directional, one could consider it to be heard as being central, with the drums (I would tend to have the bass drum a couple of clicks to one side, the bass the same amount the other, but that's optional, and only me being picky...). The sole guitar would be panned an appropriate amount to reflect its position on the stage, either to left or right. I'm again assuming that it's not being mic'd through the PA, but even if it is, the PA would probably be panned to give this same spatial notion, so that the sound 'appears' to be coming from the guitar rig. It cab be helpful to pan the singer to an equal amount the other side from the guitar, again giving better sonic space between the two, but, again, that's optional.
Hope this helps; good luck with  your project. 

[thebrig]

17 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 Imagine someone in the centre of your auditorium, listening to your concert. The stereo image would be that created by the placing of the backline, so that's what the panning of each track should be aiming for. Presumably the singer would be through the PA, with equal voice from each FOH column. The bass would be (typically...) beside the drums; as bass frequencies tend to be non-directional, one could consider it to be heard as being central, with the drums (I would tend to have the bass drum a couple of clicks to one side, the bass the same amount the other, but that's optional, and only me being picky...). The sole guitar would be panned an appropriate amount to reflect its position on the stage, either to left or right. I'm again assuming that it's not being mic'd through the PA, but even if it is, the PA would probably be panned to give this same spatial notion, so that the sound 'appears' to be coming from the guitar rig. It cab be helpful to pan the singer to an equal amount the other side from the guitar, again giving better sonic space between the two, but, again, that's optional.
Hope this helps; good luck with  your project. 

Thanks for the advice Dad, it's much appreciated, I will try some of the things you have mentioned.

[paul_5]

22 hours ago, Doctor J said:

You could use a slap-back echo. Pan the guitar one side, the echo to the other. Listen to Live at Leeds for a great example.

Van Halen used to just pan Eddie to the left and let reverb fill the space.

Edit -> As BigRedX says, keep the bass in the middle, along with the kick drum, snare and lead vocals.

See also first couple of Led Zep albums

[BigRedX]

If you do decide to make use of the stereo field, I'd suggest that you don't make it too wide. There's always a temptation to hard pan anything stereo, but often it sounds better if you restrict the sound scape to about half of the full width. 

Also check that your mixes still work in mono. Especially if you do anything with the clean signal one one side and an effected version of it on the other. Many effects are made to sound more impressive by putting the effected signal out of phase with the original. In stereo it sounds massive. In mono the phase differences will cause it to virtually disappear.

[BigRedX]

18 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 Imagine someone in the centre of your auditorium, listening to your concert. The stereo image would be that created by the placing of the backline, so that's what the panning of each track should be aiming for. Presumably the singer would be through the PA, with equal voice from each FOH column. The bass would be (typically...) beside the drums; as bass frequencies tend to be non-directional, one could consider it to be heard as being central, with the drums (I would tend to have the bass drum a couple of clicks to one side, the bass the same amount the other, but that's optional, and only me being picky...). The sole guitar would be panned an appropriate amount to reflect its position on the stage, either to left or right. I'm again assuming that it's not being mic'd through the PA, but even if it is, the PA would probably be panned to give this same spatial notion, so that the sound 'appears' to be coming from the guitar rig. It cab be helpful to pan the singer to an equal amount the other side from the guitar, again giving better sonic space between the two, but, again, that's optional.
Hope this helps; good luck with  your project. 

IME anywhere small enough to not have the whole band in the PA, it will be nigh on impossible to pin point where a particular instrument's sound is coming from using your ears alone. Bass frequencies are particularly hard to place so there is little point having them anywhere but in the centre on the any stereo sound field.

[fretmeister]

I quite like a small pan in a 1 guitar ban - bass left and guitar right. 15 - 20% ish. 

Doesn't seem to affect the punch but gives it some spread.

 

I do like to write tunes with really heavy middle sections - after reading this thread I might automate it to put everything dead centre for that part of the song to see if it makes a difference.

[Jus Lukin]

All good advice.

It is worth listening to recordings by the bands you mention, too. There's nothing wrong with taking cues straight from the way those tracks are mixed.

[milford59]

I love Dr Feelgood..... I assume that your guitarist struts round the stage like a cockerel with a deadpan expression ?

[thebrig]

2 hours ago, milford59 said:

I love Dr Feelgood..... I assume that your guitarist struts round the stage like a cockerel with a deadpan expression ?

He doesn't strut around as much as Wilko mainly because you couldn't "swing a cat" in most of the pubs we play in, but he does have a deadpan expression when he's playing 😉

Here's a couple of clips of us that were taken on a phone, the audio isn't great but they give you an idea of his stage mannerisms 

[milford59]

VERY good.... I have done an amount of tracking and mixing with older school gear (Akai DPS-24 hard disc recorder) as I prefer that to a computer set up....  I agree with what you said in an earlier post - I think you may be overthinking it.... and although I read an opinion where the bass should be panned dead centre, I think with your band I would go with a little bit of pan for guitar and bass. That’s the fun thing with mixing - you can try various set-ups and see what you like best.

The energy of the band is going to come across whatever you do (within reason) so I don’t think you can go far wrong. Good luck with it !

[thebrig]

17 hours ago, milford59 said:

VERY good.... I have done an amount of tracking and mixing with older school gear (Akai DPS-24 hard disc recorder) as I prefer that to a computer set up....  I agree with what you said in an earlier post - I think you may be overthinking it.... and although I read an opinion where the bass should be panned dead centre, I think with your band I would go with a little bit of pan for guitar and bass. That’s the fun thing with mixing - you can try various set-ups and see what you like best.

The energy of the band is going to come across whatever you do (within reason) so I don’t think you can go far wrong. Good luck with it !

This is one I mixed some time ago, I'm reasonably happy with it especially because I don't really know what I'm doing, its all trial and error with me, but I would be happy to be advised on how I could make it better, and any constructive criticism of it would be welcome.

It was recorded in the rehearsal studio on my Zoom R16, I used four mics on the drums, two overheads (left and right), one kick, and one snare, I took the lead and backing vocals from the PA which only had one out, so all the vocals were on one track, I close mic'd the guitarist's amp, and I DI'd my bass, it was only the second time we had ever played the song, so its "warts and all" I'm afraid. 🙄

We only use the recordings in the hope of getting a few gigs in local pubs, so they don't have to be perfect, but I'm just interested in how I might be able to improve them. 🤔

[BigRedX]

Regarding panning.

I was amused by this quote from Public Service Broadcasting about their "Race For Space" album:

Quote

Here’s the kit we used to record all the USA songs on the record, again at The Pool. They’re all panned audience perspective (snare right, ride left) while the Soviet ones are the opposite. No-one has ever noticed or commented.

I think that says it all. Pan so the instruments don't conflict, but keep all the important ones in the middle.

[Dad3353]

14 hours ago, thebrig said:

... its all trial and error with me, but I would be happy to be advised on how I could make it better...

Not much 'error' here, lad. That's excellent execution, tight enough arrangement for the genre, well sung (again, in keeping...) and well mixed. I've heard many studio sessions much, much worse that that. How to improve it..? Maybe a spot of post-prod Fx for the vocals, doubling the voice would be good (can be done 'live', now, with 'trickster' voice pedals. BV's would add, if there are others willing to step up to the hot plate. No need to be Caruso, just reasonably in tune. BV's add a lot to this sort of rock.
Excellent drum sound, so kudos for whoever tuned the kit. I can't hear much in the way of cymbals, but that's probably my advancing age and retreating hearing, so no worries. Best check with others to be sure, though.
All together a very efficient 'visiting card, so well done all involved. 

[thebrig]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Not much 'error' here, lad. That's excellent execution, tight enough arrangement for the genre, well sung (again, in keeping...) and well mixed. I've heard many studio sessions much, much worse that that. How to improve it..? Maybe a spot of post-prod Fx for the vocals, doubling the voice would be good (can be done 'live', now, with 'trickster' voice pedals. BV's would add, if there are others willing to step up to the hot plate. No need to be Caruso, just reasonably in tune. BV's add a lot to this sort of rock.
Excellent drum sound, so kudos for whoever tuned the kit. I can't hear much in the way of cymbals, but that's probably my advancing age and retreating hearing, so no worries. Best check with others to be sure, though.
All together a very efficient 'visiting card, so well done all involved. 

Thanks for the tips Dad, I think you are right about the cymbals being a bit lacking, would it help if I placed the two overhead mics nearer to them, or would they then be too overpowering? 🤔

As for the drum kit? its a DW and it was the first time our drummer had used it after having it specially made and imported from the USA, its a lovely sounding kit.

[Dad3353]

41 minutes ago, thebrig said:

Thanks for the tips Dad, I think you are right about the cymbals being a bit lacking, would it help if I placed the two overhead mics nearer to them, or would they then be too overpowering? 🤔

As for the drum kit? its a DW and it was the first time our drummer had used it after having it specially made and imported from the USA, its a lovely sounding kit.

Ah, DW. Jolly Good Stuff. My kit, bought in the very early '70s, is a Camco; they were bought by DW, and have the same round lugs, and the same superb sound. Good choice, and well played.
As for the cymbals: as I wrote, it may be best to get the opinion of someone else, but it's better to be a touch too cautious, as they can become aggressive and wearing quite quickly. To judge from the overall drum sound, I'd say that the distance is pretty well spot on; a little EQ tweaking would bring out the 'shine', or a drum bus mastering preset if the whole kit is in a group on the desk. Less Is More, however; there's no flagrant problem. Carry on as before and you'll not be far wrong. 

[thebrig]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

Ah, DW. Jolly Good Stuff. My kit, bought in the very early '70s, is a Camco; they were bought by DW, and have the same round lugs, and the same superb sound. Good choice, and well played.
As for the cymbals: as I wrote, it may be best to get the opinion of someone else, but it's better to be a touch too cautious, as they can become aggressive and wearing quite quickly. To judge from the overall drum sound, I'd say that the distance is pretty well spot on; a little EQ tweaking would bring out the 'shine', or a drum bus mastering preset if the whole kit is in a group on the desk. Less Is More, however; there's no flagrant problem. Carry on as before and you'll not be far wrong. 

👍 Thanks again, I might upload a couple more of my efforts in a new thread because I love reading any advice, and criticism, that might help me in the future.

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, thebrig said:

...because I love reading any advice, and criticism...

You may regret having written this in the future..! 

[thebrig]

8 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

You may regret having written this in the future..! 

You may well be right! 🤐