Garageband, Reaper & DaVinci Resolve

[skidder652003]

Talk about making life complicated, Recorded last weeks rehearsal into GarageBand, "mastered" (ahem) in Reaper, then sync'd over to DaVinci Resolve (the hardest part TBH). Band wouldn't allow me to upload to FB as it's "a bit rough" and "it may cheapen new material", we're a pub band FFS!

Anyway, as it took ages and they're an ungrateful bunch, I thought the BC collective would at least endure me a few seconds basking in the Glory....well?....No?

Bl@@dy Typical!  😁

 

 

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

... the BC collective would at least endure me a few seconds basking in the Glory...

OK for the few seconds, well merited. Once they're passed, however, one has to say that the guys are right; it's not what you want to pass around as a show-piece. Please take these criticisms in the spirit they're intended (as friendly as possible...).
The playing is fine, as is the singing (in fact, very good indeed...). The mix, however, cannot stand. The guitar is too far back, and the bass absolutely inaudible. The bass has to come up to the level of the bass drum, at least (a matter of taste and style after that, but it must be as present as the low end of the drums...). The guitar, being alone, has to come up a bit, and a bit more still when soloing. On listening, the voice should be a bit above the guitar, but not too much. Taking the voice, then, as the 'reference, I'd suggest bringing the guitar up 3 to 6 db, and 3 db more for soloing.
When filming, the singer should have the lyrics on a big paper-board in front, but behind the camera. It's 'not on' to hold the A4 paper in one hand.  In studio, or rehearsal, fine, but not for a demo clip.
It would be better if the singer was less fuzzy, too, but that's not as important as the A4 crib-sheet.
There's much that could be said for the treatment (or lack of...) of the vocals and drums, but it would not be appropriate to go too far down that rabbit hole, and is arguable, in any case. Suffice it to say: both could be improved with a touch of 'magic dust' here and there.
OK, that's enough; I don't wish to spoil your evening. A fine effort, and I'm sure you've learned a lot already. It's not easy, not easy at all, to bring all the elements together, especially with one's first attempts. Be rightly pleased, then, with the result, and think about how to improve yet further. Well,done, all involved, and kudos for having the courage to share the clip. You did well. 

[Beedster]

Singer with lyric sheets? Sorry but that’s bad enough in a rehearsal, but in a video? Also I assume you’re distancing, but even so why have the singer looking like they’re in a fire escape when drums and guitar are on a stage? I think the mix is OK to be honest, but couldn’t watch the singer more than 30 seconds. 

EDIT

My apologies, the above was harsh, I'd had a long day and it was my emotional reaction. I agree with all of the positives above and in the post below this. Importantly, perhaps most importantly, it's a tight band, and there's not enough of those around. Good luck with it all. Chris

Edited October 9, 2020 by Beedster

[TwoTimesBass]

Skidder, I have to say I agree with what Dad3353 said in his post, but I'd also like to reiterate that any comments are purely to help you get the best from your recordings, especially if it's to promote the band. I'm an audio-wrangler by trade and it isn't easy, more so recording in a live rehearsal. The great thing is that you've got a tight band and strong singer, and that's more than half the battle. Also, I always try to avoid engineering any band that i'm involved in, you're correct in saying they can be an ungrateful bunch 😀

If you want any advice, sharing how you recorded the band and what kit/processes you used would be interesting. There's a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum, and good ideas are given freely.

All credit to you for going out there and making something, and putting the work in and being brave enough to share it here.

Good luck!

Edited October 8, 2020 by TwoTimesBass

[skidder652003]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

You are the only ones to see it as it's not (or will be) published on youtube. To be fair everyone is right that it shouldn't be used to promote the band.  In my defense, it was literally thrown together at last weeks rehearsal and the singer was writing the lyrics as we went along.

It was all recorded in the same (large) room, no acoustic treatment, in one take, with vocals on a stage mic rather than a proper studio vocal mic and there's invariably bleed all over the place which I tried to negate with gates. I think the main issues are, Im completely deaf in my left ear and I tried to mix it on cheap rubbish headphones 

The plan hopefully is to get the songs up to a decent standard then record the various bits either individually or separately with better room treatment. I found the drums especially difficult to mix. 

I think it also lost quite a bit of audio quality when rendered down to an mp4 which is a issue, any advice on that also appreciated.

We have decent monitors in the rehearsal room, I think I'll try to mix it down there and ask the others for input as they can at least hear properly.

Dad3353, many thanks for your input, I'll have a go at those suggestions next time.

 I deffo need a better camera for the singer (was using the camera on the zoom 2qn which is rubbish) and she needs to be filmed with the rest of the band, not in the "fire escape" 😉

TwoTimesBass,  gear used as I recall,

DW drumkit, mic'd kick, snare and 3 toms individually, one overhead,

guitar, marhall valve combo with sm57 mic to front offset,

bass, markbass combo Di'd

vocal, sennhieser mic (can't remember which model but we use it for gigs)

Again , any advice greatly appreciated from the collective BC mind 🖖

Edited October 9, 2020 by skidder652003

[Beedster]

Are you trying to record a good audio performance, or a good promo video, I get the impression you might be trying to do both but that's a big ask? 

[skidder652003]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

Are you trying to record a good audio performance, or a good promo video, I get the impression you might be trying to do both but that's a big ask? 

Well what I’ve been doing is trying to keep some interest in the band with our small but loyal group of followers on Facebook and YouTube . As we’re not gigging I’ve been releasing the odd video of us rehearsing , and as that’s progressed I’ve been trying to improve both the audio and video quality, firstly using the zoom recorder and now directly into GarageBand. So promo video is a bit of a strong term if you see what I mean, more just keeping the embers hot whilst we wait to get out of this nightmare 

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

... Im completely deaf in my left ear and I tried to mix it on cheap rubbish headphones...

You're in good company here, along with Beethoven. I, too, am 'hard of hearing', what with being old'n'all, and it does, indeed, pose extra difficulties when recording and mixing. A tip, that you may find useful..? I find it helps considerably, when mixing, to have a few reference tracks; that's to say, songs that I listen to, and know well, preferably in the same or similar genre to the track I'm mixing. This gives me confidence that, if I can hear it in my mix as being somewhat like my reference track, I'm not too far out. I'll admit to not being of uber precision; I don't do 'tweaks' of 1 or 2 db (I can't hear them...). My audio scalpel is calibrated at 3 db; that's the amount I raise or lower stuff when balancing out the instruments and vocals. Top engineers will have a different approach, but they have ears like bats, and I don't, so I do with what works for me. Just a thought; hope you find it useful.
Getting a good 'take' of a drum kit is not an easy affair (I'm a drummer...). The first, and perhaps the most important, step is having the drums themselves tuned properly, with good drum heads (Evans is your friend...). It often helps to use a touch of dampening, to reduce overtones and ringing (again, depending on the genre of music...). The favourite, classic, snare technique is to lay one's wallet on the snare head; a little piece of duct tape from the rim to the head of the toms helps, too. Mic positioning is important, and needs experimenting for optimum. It's a luxury to have each piece of the kit individually mic'ed; a good kit will sound right when recorded with just the overhead (one is enough; two can be better, but has its own issues, too...). The individual toms would be used only as a complement, really. It makes mixing the drums far easier, using the overhead as principal source, and adding bass drum and snare to reinforce the tone. Leakage is far less of an issue with this set-up.
That's enough for now; hope some of this helps. Good luck with the project; you're doing fine. 

[DaytonaRik]

8 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

I think it also lost quite a bit of audio quality when rendered down to an mp4 which is a issue, any advice on that also appreciated.

The compression that is introduced when rendering to MP3 rather than .WAV is huuuuuge and very noticeable when playing back from sharing sites such as SoundClound  Try to stick to .WAV files if you can

[DaytonaRik]

Spend a bit of time watching this YouTube video - 

To keep time/production costs down the band (Tyler Bryant And The Shakedown) recorded the rhythm guitar, bass and drum tracks live in a single take - Vance explains some of the techniques used to avoid bleed (even then, there is some as it's inevitable but as there are no rhythm overdubs this isn't a problem) and then goes through some of the signal processing and tricks used as the example track was produced.

I mix on AKG K702s or KRK monitors at home - the room is pretty flat but untreated (for now) so I do the bulk of the mixing on speakers then go to headphones for the final polish - you really do need to have some quality headphones or monitors in a good room to mix with sadly.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by DaytonaRik

[skidder652003]

@Dad3353, I've had another go at mixing it down taking on board what you said re bass, guitar and vocals. I've also rendered to WAV, does it sound better? I'm getting ear fatigue (and one too many glasses of Picpoul!)

 

[DaytonaRik]

First listen - definitely moving in the right direction 👍🏻 

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

...does it sound better?...

Night'n'day, lad; night'n'day..! That's a very credible mix..! No more of the old jollop for this evening, then, but keep the recipe that you used here, plus the other stuff talked about, and you're on the right track. If you're not doing this stuff in 'studio' conditions (appropriatly-sounding room, high-end monitors, top-notch 'cans'...), don't worry about fine details. Go for the 'low hanging fruit', using tried and tested simple techniques, and trust your ears..! Give it another listen tomorrow, then listen to the video track, and you'll hear for yourself the difference. Good Stuff, well done. 

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Sorry, but where is the bass player? 
I have just watched this on my iPad , and the sound is ok for a pub band , but the bass player cannot be seen or heard . 
I saw the headstock of a precision , or was it a jazz , or an encore ? 

I had to laugh at the vocalist who looks disinterested , and wants to carry on drinking once she puts the papers down . Sorry , not professional . 
In a roundabout way , it is a bit like the Aerosmith / run dmc video . 
 

In my last band , the frontman actually had a book which he put on a music stand and sung with the lyrics in front of him . We got gigs , but most of the compliments went to mr drums and myself . .

Apologies if I said too much ..

[DaytonaRik]

I've given the new version a few more listens - more 'air' and space.  I'm still struggling to hear the bass on occasions but that's not difficult to fix.  I personally found the guitar solo level a little high.  I'm not sure if you've panned the drum kit?  That would give a little more width to the mix rather than it all coming straight down the middle.  Nicely good - huuuuge strides over the first version 😎👍🏻 

Edited October 10, 2020 by DaytonaRik

[skidder652003]

1 hour ago, RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE said:

Sorry, but where is the bass player? 
I have just watched this on my iPad , and the sound is ok for a pub band , but the bass player cannot be seen or heard . 
I saw the headstock of a precision , or was it a jazz , or an encore ? 

I had to laugh at the vocalist who looks disinterested , and wants to carry on drinking once she puts the papers down . Sorry , not professional . 
In a roundabout way , it is a bit like the Aerosmith / run dmc video . 
 

In my last band , the frontman actually had a book which he put on a music stand and sung with the lyrics in front of him . We got gigs , but most of the compliments went to mr drums and myself . .

Apologies if I said too much ..

No it's fine, it's just an experiment to be honest, the more feedback the better. The bass player (me) is too busy sorting out the sound and cameras to have time to include himself in any shot, but you're right, I'll get myself in next time! The headstock was a  jazz btw with drop d tuner. It's all good, an upward learning curve and any comments appreciated.

[skidder652003]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

I've given the new version a few more listens - more 'air' and space.  I'm still struggling to hear the bass on occasions but that's not difficult to fix.  I personally found the guitar solo level a little high.  I'm not sure if you've panned the drum kit?  That would give a little more width to the mix rather than it all coming straight down the middle.  Nicely good - huuuuge strides over the first version 😎👍🏻 

how would you pan the kit Rik?

[DaytonaRik]

Just now, skidder652003 said:

how would you pan the kit Rik?

Exactly as you'd hear if you were stood right in front of it - kick down the middle, toms and snare left/right slightly from the middle as per the kit layout.  We're only talking a few degrees off centre - but it gives a spread.

[TwoTimesBass]

20 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

I've had another go at mixing it down taking on board what you said re bass, guitar and vocals. I've also rendered to WAV

Much better mix Skidder 👍And considering it's a live rehearsal room recording, i've heard much worse come out of some studios!

4 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

We're only talking a few degrees off centre - but it gives a spread.

Rik's advice is sound, the only complication is that the overhead is mono which might make it hard to wider the stereo image while keeping the kit sounding 'together'. Have an experiment and trust your ears 😀

[Beedster]

4 minutes ago, TwoTimesBass said:

Much better mix Skidder 👍And considering it's a live rehearsal room recording, i've heard much worse come out of some studios!

Rik's advice is sound, the only complication is that the overhead is mono which might make it hard to wider the stereo image while keeping the kit sounding 'together'. Have an experiment and trust your ears 😀

Now’s possibly the time to get creative with that mono overhead  

[Dad3353]

Keep it simple, for now, and add bells and whistles little by little, as the mastery develops. I'd start by using two overheads, snare and bass drum, and leave the tom mic's alone for now. If they're recorded, that's fine, but get the overheads to do the 'heavy lifting' (including stereo separation...), and only add tiny touches of toms once the drum mix is done, to see how they can affect the whole. They're not essential; many studio engineers don't use 'em at all, even if they're 'on the desk'. Keep it simple; Less Is More..! 

[bazzbass]

where is the bass and the bass player, never saw or heard them.

the band is right, you can't put this on FB. Too many people post their first jam, first recording etc and mostly they are crap. Your song and the playing and singing are OK, but where is the bass? And you CAN NOT show your singer reading the lyrics,can she not remember them? If it's a new song,then fine, but don't post her reading the lyrics.

The song and band are good enough, the recording isn't. First impressions matter, a LOT in this business. Don't post something until it's really good.

[skidder652003]

On 25/12/2020 at 08:06, bazzbass said:

where is the bass and the bass player, never saw or heard them.

the band is right, you can't put this on FB. Too many people post their first jam, first recording etc and mostly they are crap. Your song and the playing and singing are OK, but where is the bass? And you CAN NOT show your singer reading the lyrics,can she not remember them? If it's a new song,then fine, but don't post her reading the lyrics.

The song and band are good enough, the recording isn't. First impressions matter, a LOT in this business. Don't post something until it's really good.

WTF?

[bazzbass]

8 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

WTF?

you asked for opinions, I gave mine. Don't like it? Don't follow it, pretty simple.

tell you what, post it on FB. Then come back to me lol

My thoughts are based on 41 years of playing and managing over a dozen bands, advising young bands on how to progress via community tv etc. I don't care if you take no notice, truly. You asked , I gave.

 

PS and I was being overly kind about the recording btw

Edited December 27, 2020 by bazzbass

[skidder652003]

1 hour ago, bazzbass said:

you asked for opinions, I gave mine. Don't like it? Don't follow it, pretty simple.

tell you what, post it on FB. Then come back to me lol

My thoughts are based on 41 years of playing and managing over a dozen bands, advising young bands on how to progress via community tv etc. I don't care if you take no notice, truly. You asked , I gave.

 

PS and I was being overly kind about the recording btw

Only a dozen? Well done!

Your name isn't Mick Mason by any chance? 🤣

I'd like to think I received some constructive advice from the other kind folk on here rather than a sarcastic and pointless trolling of a long dead zombie post, but hey whatever turns you on. FYI that did go on FB along with some other covid restricted band rehearsals, some even got over a thousand views, not massive but ok. We also gigged 40 times last year, got well paid for it and put out an album which we sold out of online (ok only a hundred copies but it's a start)

I'm not going to have a popcorn barney with you but if you want to say something I can respect, try and be a little less arrogant please. Peace and Love & A Happy New Year!

Edited December 27, 2020 by skidder652003