Condenser mic question

[Nicko]

I have a condenser mic that came as part of the Focusrite studio package.  I haven't ever used it and so far have been using a dynamic mic which I have had to return to it's owner as I've quit the band and won't be doing BVs for them. 

The mic that came with the pack has no pop filter and no shock mount.  It it worth using this mic without these two extras or am I just asking for handling noise and too much non vocal mouthiness.

I do have an old dynamic mic which is a Samson S11 which I can use if the condenser isn't really going to work

I realise the answer may well be to try both, but the condenser is in a box in the loft and not immediately to hand so reather then spend the time to track it down I thought you guys would be able ti offer some advice.

My vocals are pretty poor, so a faithful reproduction of my voice isn't necessarily a good thing btw😁.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Nicko

[Dad3353]

There are many types of condenser mic, but having looked at what is supplied with the Focusrite package, I'm assuming that it's a large-diaphragm mic. Ideally, a shock mount would be better; its purpose is to reduce ground vibration through the mic stand from being picked up. If you're not recording over a tube station, and don't jump up and down whilst singing, it shouldn't make too much difference.
A pop shield has two main uses: firstly, to prevent the singer from approaching too close to the mic (some singers 'eat' the mic; not good..!), and also to reduce spray from landing on the mic; the capsule inside won't like that, and is not so easy to replace as a dynamic mic. Without such a device, it can be made fairly easily by bending a wire coat-hanger into a circle, and covering this with a ladies stocking or similar. As long as air can pass through, but not spray, it's good enough until a better-quality filter can be acquired.
Be aware, of course, that the condenser mic will require the phantom '48v' to be turned on, as they need power to work. Turn this off again when reverting to the dynamic mic.
Hope this helps; good luck with the project. 

[Nicko]

45 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

There are many types of condenser mic, but having looked at what is supplied with the Focusrite package, I'm assuming that it's a large-diaphragm mic. Ideally, a shock mount would be better; its purpose is to reduce ground vibration through the mic stand from being picked up. If you're not recording over a tube station, and don't jump up and down whilst singing, it shouldn't make too much difference.
A pop shield has two main uses: firstly, to prevent the singer from approaching too close to the mic (some singers 'eat' the mic; not good..!), and also to reduce spray from landing on the mic; the capsule inside won't like that, and is not so easy to replace as a dynamic mic. Without such a device, it can be made fairly easily by bending a wire coat-hanger into a circle, and covering this with a ladies stocking or similar. As long as air can pass through, but not spray, it's good enough until a better-quality filter can be acquired.
Be aware, of course, that the condenser mic will require the phantom '48v' to be turned on, as they need power to work. Turn this off again when reverting to the dynamic mic.
Hope this helps; good luck with the project. 

Ta, will be using the dynamic mic for the current project which will hopefully be done before the deadline.  As for shock mount, I live very close to a tube station and have a car repair garage at the end of my garden.

[TomasFlats]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Without such a device, it can be made fairly easily by bending a wire coat-hanger into a circle, and covering this with a ladies stocking or similar.

Or, as an unexpected bonus of the current situation, a reasonable pop filter could be fashioned from a single-ply face mask.

Unused or recently laundered for preference.

[DaytonaRik]

23 hours ago, Nicko said:

I have a condenser mic that came as part of the Focusrite studio package.  I haven't ever used it and so far have been using a dynamic mic which I have had to return to it's owner as I've quit the band and won't be doing BVs for them. 

The mic that came with the pack has no pop filter and no shock mount.  It it worth using this mic without these two extras or am I just asking for handling noise and too much non vocal mouthiness.

I do have an old dynamic mic which is a Samson S11 which I can use if the condenser isn't really going to work

I realise the answer may well be to try both, but the condenser is in a box in the loft and not immediately to hand so reather then spend the time to track it down I thought you guys would be able ti offer some advice.

My vocals are pretty poor, so a faithful reproduction of my voice isn't necessarily a good thing btw😁.

PM me your address and I'll bang an unused mic-stand clamp pop-filter in the post for you.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by DaytonaRik

[Nicko]

3 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

PM me your address and I'll bang an unused mic-stand clamp pop-filter in the post for you.

 

That's very kind.  

[TwoTimesBass]

What make/model is the condenser mic Nicko?

[Nicko]

10 hours ago, TwoTimesBass said:

What make/model is the condenser mic Nicko?

I don't know - it came as part of the Focusrite pack a few years back so it has Focusrite branding but presumably they just buy it in and rebrand it.

[Beedster]

Probably not a helpful post Nicko, but trial and error is the only way to work with mics, there are general principles but there are people, rooms and equipment that fall outside of them and you won't know whether yours do until you try. There is certainly comfort in believing that the set up that you're using should be correct for the parameters in question, and that's a good place to start, but that doesn't mean that it is. I've got four five decent vocal mics, on paper an SM7B really shouldn't be my first call for my own voice - in fact it should be the least suited to it - but as soon as I started using it about three months ago people who were listening to my suff said "voice sounds like you're in my head". Just worked for a whole load of reasons I won't pretend to understand

[Beedster]

On 22/10/2020 at 14:59, Dad3353 said:

.....and covering this with a ladies stocking or similar.

Very gender biased Dad

Again, experiment Nicko, depending on what voice you're going for, a pop filter (spoffle as Hugh Laurie apparently named them), can take a little bit of the air away from a voice as well. I guess like filtering, don't put something between the source and the desk unless it improves something

[DaytonaRik]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

Again, experiment Nicko, depending on what voice you're going for, a pop filter (spoffle as Hugh Laurie apparently named them), can take a little bit of the air away from a voice as well. I guess like filtering, don't put something between the source and the desk unless it improves something

I've seen the inside of my SM58 capsule basket - wouldn't want a studio vocal mic to end up like that!!! 🤮

[Beedster]

50 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

I've seen the inside of my SM58 capsule basket - wouldn't want a studio vocal mic to end up like that!!! 🤮

Fair point

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

I've seen the inside of my SM58 capsule basket - wouldn't want a studio vocal mic to end up like that!!! 🤮

And no matter how bad it is. it won't be as bad as the inside of Mr Venom's Shure Super 55!

[Pea Turgh]

A pop filter is used to guard against plosives.  A large blast of air to a microphone (like when you say the ”P” in the word Plosives) makes the diaphragm move too much, giving you a huge signal boost, usually overloading the recording chain and wrecking your recording.

Stick your hand in front of your mouth and see what I mean.  The pop filter dissipates the plosives energy while allowing the sound through.

Singers with proper mic technique normally don’t need one, but most normal people will.

I’d say dig the mic out - with careful use it’ll be so much better than the Samson dynamic.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Pea Turgh

[TwoTimesBass]

2 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

Singers with proper mic technique normally don’t need one, but most normal people will

As an engineer my take on singers with good mic technique is that they stand perfectly still with their mouth 1" away from the pop shield/SM58 and don't move. I can then set the pop shield-to-mic distance as appropriate.

There is a terrible pub karaoke habit of moving the mic further away from your mouth as you sing louder that i've see being taught to singers as good 'mic technique'. Utter rubbish. Sorry, it's a particular bugbear of mine 😁

[Dad3353]

17 minutes ago, TwoTimesBass said:

...moving the mic further away from your mouth as you sing louder...

That's certainly the correct way for live work, à la Tom Jones, though. A good singer (with a good voice...) uses this to splendid effect. 

[TwoTimesBass]

16 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

That's certainly the correct way for live work, à la Tom Jones, though. A good singer (with a good voice...) uses this to splendid effect. 

I respectfully disagree, although in the past (and certainly in classic 70's Tom Jones clips) it was necessary and largely where the 'mic technique' myth comes from. The loss of tone by pulling away from the proximity effect of most cardiod vocal mics means at the moment of peak vocal power it sounds thin and lacking in bass. Like a weird filter-sweep on the loud notes. Compressors, engineers and PA systems with large dynamic range make this technique (IMHO) unnecessary and counter-productive in modern times.

[Pea Turgh]

I guess in the old old days no one used pop shields and moved a bit to keep levels steady.  Maybe it is unnecessary with modern technology.  I do cringe when I see people imitating mic technique.  I suppose there’s many ways to skin a cat.