Combining gut strings with synthetic.

[Paddy Morris]

I'm looking for string recommendations please.

I just got a natural gut D and G string, and I am blown away by them.  The effect on my cheap plywood bass is completely transformational.

I was using Innovation Sliver Slaps, which are also very nice strings, and which mellowed in nicely over the 10 months or so since I have been playing them.  But I never quite managed to get rid of the slightly twangy, electric guitar sound from the A string.

So now I'm left with the Innovation as an E (which is perfect) and these gorgeous sounding real gut strings on D and G, but the A string really doesn't sit nicely with all these mellow strings at all.  When I'm playing I actually find myself avoiding the A now.  

Is there a go-to A string I should be considering in this set up?  I play about 50 / 50 slap and jazz, and any advice would be gratefully received.

 

[petebassist]

I used to have some Presto Jazzicatos on my 1950 Stentor (lammy with solid top), which mellowed out the sound a lot compared to steel strings. And Presto Nylonwounds  give a good gut impression on my current Eastman hybrid. Worth a try maybe - I don#t have an old spare A string otherwise you could've had it to try out.

[PaulKing]

Ah here we go! My favourite topic for like the last ten years.

My current simple answer: Evah Pirazzi Slap (or Weich, if you want a gnat's more tension and growl). 

For years I loved Innovation SilverSlaps, but also disliked the twangy A (and E). I found the Solo jazz set were a great match with gut D and G though. Actually I still rate that combination - that'd work well for you. 

Then I went with Cordes Lambert GT47 for a long time, and still find the E and A are about the best substitute for plain gut. But, they're quite an acquired taste, very thick and thumpy. Perfect for roots slapping, but less good if you want the option of playing something more defined and articlated ... jazzy, in a word. And impossible to get hold of. (Superior Bass Works do various Gut-A-Likes which many people recommend - I tried a set once and wasn't wholly convinced - but they are definitely a very good choice for many slappers).

More recently, I wanted to get a bit more articulation so I could cut through the mix better, without losing that gut thump. I really play much less slap these days, but I do play hard and thumpy. So I've moved onto Evah Pirazzi - and actually gone for EAD in the end, keeping just the gut G. But gut D would fit nice too.

And I've realised the tone is really very similar to the bumped Innovation Solos I liked years ago - and which really never caught on ... don't think I've heard of ANYONE else who tried that combo. 

On my Kay and King basses, the tension and tone and slap sound is so consistent between EP EAD and gut G - its just perfect. But of course it doesnt disappear into mud like a plain gut E and A. Depending how much slap you play (if any), I'd recommend the slap set for slapping (who'd have thought), and the Weich set for more pizz ... slightly higher tension, but almost identical tone overall.

There you go, many years experimenting wrapped up in a few sentences.

[PaulKing]

PS you'll find the tension of the EPs a fraction higher than Silver Slaps, but really only a bit. Same ball park really. Slappity slap.

[Happy Jack]

3 hours ago, Paddy Morris said:

I'm looking for string recommendations please.

I just got a natural gut D and G string, and I am blown away by them.  The effect on my cheap plywood bass is completely transformational.

I was using Innovation Sliver Slaps, which are also very nice strings, and which mellowed in nicely over the 10 months or so since I have been playing them.  But I never quite managed to get rid of the slightly twangy, electric guitar sound from the A string.

 

 

1 hour ago, PaulKing said:

Ah here we go! My favourite topic for like the last ten years.

My current simple answer: Evah Pirazzi Slap (or Weich, if you want a gnat's more tension and growl). 

For years I loved Innovation SilverSlaps, but also disliked the twangy A (and E). I found the Solo jazz set were a great match with gut D and G though. Actually I still rate that combination - that'd work well for you. 

 

 

A couple of months ago I was in very nearly the same place Paddy. I'd been using Silver Slaps for years, thought I'd try some genuine guts for the first time, found I loved the D & G but hated the E & A.

Paul suggested replacing the E & A with Evah Pirazzis, which I did, and they're a near-perfect match. I'm really very happy with them.

I'd go with Paul if I were you. 

[Paddy Morris]

Well that sounds like a consensus then. Thanks for the advice guys, I'll give the EPs a look.

[PaulKing]

Yeh there are only two opinions that matter round here.  🤩

[PaulKing]

Small correction - I mixed up Superior Bass Works (US) strings with Slap-Strings.de/Duke Bass 'Gut-A-Likes'.

They kinda do the same thing as far as I can see... both worth exploring for serious slapping.

 

[Paddy Morris]

So I picked up an EP Slap E on eBay - damaged packaging, brand new string for half price.

After snooping about and hoping for a similar incredible bargain on the A I finally caved and paid regular price for one.

My reaction has been very like many other I've seen posted here. First impressions, yuck. Flappy, incredibly quiet compare with my Innovations, though clearly really well made strings.  Just very strange.

So I left them at pitch tension for a few days and jacked the bridge up to 15mm at the A.  And boom! I love them.

At a high action they are very playable, and project very well. As well as the Silvers? Impossible to say as with the bridge tweak there are too many variables.  Really good even volume and even tension across the set too. You can just concentrate on intonation and feel.  Great click characteristic and elastic bounce for slap, but really great for jazz piz as well.

I haven't tried yet as COVID = no gigs, but my sense is that in a loud band situation I might have to work harder to keep feedback under control as the whole bass feels a bit more lively and resonant than it did.  But I'll gladly deal with that.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Paddy Morris

[PaulKing]

On 03/12/2020 at 12:33, Paddy Morris said:

First impressions, yuck. Flappy, incredibly quiet compare with my Innovations, though clearly really well made strings.  Just very strange.

Hey good news overall! That line really puzzles me though ... I can't say I've noticed them being weak and floppy and quiet at all.

I wonder if that is when they are under-tensioned? Which explains why they settled in and bloomed once you cranked them up.

I routinely give new strings some pretty serious stretching to bring up to tension, as very few strings open up until they've been stretched. Until then, too much energy gets absorbed in stretching the string every time you pluck it I guess. I give them a good old yank and circle them round until theystop dropping pitch. Cant be arsed with all this leaving them for a few days!! 

Another thought, Silver Slaps are so darn easy to play, I wonder if you're noticing the need to dig in a little more on these? Could be.

All very interesting anyway. Will be interested to see how you get on over time.

[PaulKing]

PS Feedback? Nah. F-hole plugs.

[Happy Jack]

6 hours ago, PaulKing said:

PS Feedback? Nah. F-hole plugs.

Word.

[Clarky]

On 29/10/2020 at 20:42, Happy Jack said:

 

@Clarky suggested replacing the E & A with Evah Pirazzis, which I did, and they're a near-perfect match. I'm really very happy with them.

Fixed for ya 🤣

[Marty Forrer]

I found Velvet Garbo E and A worked well with both guts and Superior Dirty Guts.