Memorising a song?

[BadHands]

One thing I think that's been missed out, is can you sing/hum the bass part? 

Work on being able to sing along with your internal voice, and you'll find everything else a LOT easier. Then you'll have memorised the bassline itself, then when you've learned which fret makes which note and which position to play it in, you'll KNOW what it should sound like, and it'll speed things up dramatically. 

I don't think it's any surprise that you can play the intro (And I'll bet you could sing it) as it's melodically probably the most interesting part of the song, and gets it's time to shine in the song. I know it's the part I hum along to. 

 

[Saul Panzer]

I'm still at the super new stage so for me it's a case of breaking down the song into its sections (intro, verses, chorus etc.) and kind of brute forcing it if trying by ear.
After a while you pick up on the looping patterns and can spend your time memorizing a single pattern instead of the whole song..repeat that for the other parts and then it's a case of putting them in order to play the song.

I had trouble finding decent tabs, they're usually just the famous catchy piece of a song. Anyway I bumped into this from a YouTube channel while learning 'Your Love by the Outfield', it sounds accurate enough to me though better players can chime in if they disagree.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1R_qUfsRNwrNMhHsmkH6Q5B5zSi072KlF

Point is, I looked through the tabs/music and it helped me visualize how parts were broken down and fitted together to make the whole song.

If you're somewhat tech savvy you can also try to split the audio to separate the bass track from the rest of the song if it's not too messy..this has been hit or miss though tbh.

[lozkerr]

This is how I do it, at least for simple and repetitive basslines, by breaking the song into phrases. Sorry it's a wee bit blurred - camera wouldn't focus properly for some reason. This one has five phrases, and I learnt each one separately. The pencilled notes show the running order, with the 'v' indicating where the verses are in case I get lost.

As there's so much repetition in this song, I learnt the riff and chorus first, and then the ending, bridge and intro in that order. Took a couple of days or so.

Edited November 4, 2020 by lozkerr

[Nail Soup]

15 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

This is how I do it, at least for simple and repetitive basslines, by breaking the song into phrases. Sorry it's a wee bit blurred - camera wouldn't focus properly for some reason. This one has five phrases, and I learnt each one separately. The pencilled notes show the running order, with the 'v' indicating where the verses are in case I get lost.

As there's so much repetition in this song, I learnt the riff and chorus first, and then the ending, bridge and intro in that order. Took a couple of days or so.

Similar to how I do it.

 

[Judo Chop]

I'll listen to the song enough so I'm familiar with the structure and can "visualise(?)" how it might be played, then I'll figure out the chords and changes and play along as basically as possible until I'm comfortable with the order, then add the detail as I repeatedly play through it.

Personally I struggle to retain anything I've learned from a tab but remember songs easily if I've figured them out by ear. I do think some tabs are handy for a second opinion as I'm figuring something out though!

[fretmeister]

I learn 1 bar at a time. Get that nailed and then move onto the next one. Nail that, then string the 2 together. Then do the 3rd etc etc.

 

Each time I add a new one I remove any clues of the first one so force me to remember it.

[Judo Chop]

Just now, fretmeister said:

I learn 1 bar at a time. Get that nailed and then move onto the next one. Nail that, then string the 2 together. Then do the 3rd etc etc.

 

Each time I add a new one I remove any clues of the first one so force me to remember it.

That's a good idea, it's too easy to rely on the notes to remember it for you

[Nail Soup]

Similar to @lozkerr i learn the bits and then draw a chart of how they fit together. In this case I do BVs. sometime it is lead vocal, but then only hints - say one key word per line. Interesting to see another such sheet. The rest of my band don't use them!

First learn the bits, then learn to do it with the sheet, then learn to play it without the sheet.

[chris7273]

I am also learning this song 

intro is melodic and it helps to sing it

the rest of the song is quite simple but there are slight variations. All these variations are different.  That’s the difficult part if you want to play it perfectly conform. 
I learn these variations but I adapt them to my taste (and limited skills) and play them when I feel it 🙂 

Edited November 4, 2020 by chris7273

[Triumph_Rock]

Thanks for the great hints and tips guys, they are really helpful.

The issue I'm having, is not being dependant on the tab, and completely memorising the song to memory, and then playing it through with out making any mistakes.

I think the route for me to go down, is not to learn via tab, which isn't normally 100% correct anyway. So I think the route for me is to learn via ear. Being very green to learning bass, this may be a hard skill to pick up in the beginning, but I imagine will pay for itself in the future.

So I think I might try and find some audio software for my laptop, which can alter the tempo of the song to slow it down, and maybe if possible isolate the bass line. Anybody know any good software for this?

 

[Woodinblack]

Child of mine (like most songs) had a series of  patterns which are used interchangeably all the way through. Once you have the patterns sorted you just need the order to put them in and even that doesn't really matter as they can go anywhere with the same chords, which is almost all the way through apart from the solo at the end

[lozkerr]

@Woodinblack beat me to it. Don't beat yourself up if you can't memorise a tab, which may not be accurate anyway. That also applies to those in books and published scores - I have quite a few where the dots are a fair way off the original recordings.

Unless you're in a tribute band, where different rules apply, the things to remember are (a) stay in the right key, (b) stay in time and (c) hold the pulse and drive the song. That's the crucial thing - in fact it's more important than memorising every foible or mastering a tab that may have been put together by someone with a tin ear.

I learnt that the hard way when learning Losing My Religion. The tab I found had some weird syncopated phrases in it which threw me completely. Although they may well have been faithful to the original, it became apparent from listening to the CD that apart from the middle eight, intro and coda, the main pulse was 'one, two and three four, one, two and three four' throughout with a slight variation leading into the chorus of 'one, two, three and four and one, two and three four'. Once I got my head round that, I could drive it quite hard and still keep in time.

Remember - if it sounds right, it is right.

[Judo Chop]

39 minutes ago, Triumph_Rock said:

39 minutes ago, Triumph_Rock said:

Thanks for the great hints and tips guys, they are really helpful.

The issue I'm having, is not being dependant on the tab, and completely memorising the song to memory, and then playing it through with out making any mistakes.

I think the route for me to go down, is not to learn via tab, which isn't normally 100% correct anyway. So I think the route for me is to learn via ear. Being very green to learning bass, this may be a hard skill to pick up in the beginning, but I imagine will pay for itself in the future.

So I think I might try and find some audio software for my laptop, which can alter the tempo of the song to slow it down, and maybe if possible isolate the bass line. Anybody know any good software for this?

 

,

 

Audacity is free and you can import an MP3 into that and adjust the tempo however you like.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Judo Chop

[Triumph_Rock]

40 minutes ago, Judo Chop said:

Audacity is free and you can import an MP3 into that and adjust the tempo however you like.

 

Thanks, thats just what I needed!

[Bassfinger]

I read music - I can't  read tab, just can't  get my brain around it.  Ill have a few goes for 10 minutes, then go play something else.  10 minutes the next day, and the next, and usually witihin 4 or 5 days I've  cracked it. Little and often works for me, never more than 10 minutes at a time.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Bassfinger

[lozkerr]

1 minute ago, Bassfinger said:

I read music - I can't  read tab, just can't  get my brain around it.

Neither can I. I find tabs as meaningless as Sanskrit. I'm glad it's no just me!

[TwoTimesBass]

On 02/11/2020 at 23:57, chris_b said:

First learn the song. The bass line should fall into place after that.

 

On 03/11/2020 at 08:18, mikel said:

Realising that the bass is only part of a song always worked for me. Learn the lyrics and the melody so you are playing the song not simply the bass lines.

Totally agree, I often find myself singing a song and playing air bass along with it even though I don't know the actual notes. It gets the song structure and rhythm into your head before you have to worry about actually playing it.

[Doddy]

For me, it's about being familiar with the song in the same way that you know your favourite songs. So, I'll try listen to the song a few times without playing the bass, so that I know the form and the basic idea. That way, when I pick the bass up, know what's happening.  If I've got to learn in a short space of time, I'll listen once or twice without playing, and then go through it section by section.

Either way, I'll normally write some form of chart. If it's a simple line I'll write a chord chart with any rhythmic hits. If it has specific riffs, I'll notate these out. Sometimes I'll notate the whole thing if it's got time.

[BadHands]

13 hours ago, Triumph_Rock said:

Thanks for the great hints and tips guys, they are really helpful.

The issue I'm having, is not being dependant on the tab, and completely memorising the song to memory, and then playing it through with out making any mistakes.

I think the route for me to go down, is not to learn via tab, which isn't normally 100% correct anyway. So I think the route for me is to learn via ear. Being very green to learning bass, this may be a hard skill to pick up in the beginning, but I imagine will pay for itself in the future.

So I think I might try and find some audio software for my laptop, which can alter the tempo of the song to slow it down, and maybe if possible isolate the bass line. Anybody know any good software for this?

 

Finding a way to fully isolate an instrument from a mixed recording is nearly impossible and not worth the effort. Have a google for *song isolated bass track on youtube and then slow it down using youtubes playback and if it's a popular song, you might be lucky and find a video like the one that's been posted above for you!

If you're as new to learning the instrument as you say, it could just be a time-served thing. I'd (controversially) say stick with the tab, and work on being able to play each section without looking at the tab. Practise each section and memorise the shapes and pay attention to patterns on the neck that you're playing. If you're brand new to the instrument, it might feel like you're hitting various frets with no rhyme or reason, but the bass guitar is a highly geometric instrument, and you'll pick these things up over time, the more songs you learn. Does the tab rarely have you playing frets right next to each other? Perhaps you play 5-7-9 (all odd numbers, all with dots on the fretboard) but not even numbers? There's a reason for this, so pay attention, and see what landmarks you can see on the fretboard. Frets have dots on so you know where you are. Don't be afraid to use them. 

Learning by ear is an AMAZING skill to be able to have and opens up a whole other world of improvisation later on, but it's a steep learning curve at the beginning, as there are several places to play the same note and only one will be right, depending on where you've just been playing, where you're going to play next, and the timbre (texture) of the note that you're looking for. It can be frustrating as hell, especially at the beginning - At the beginning of learning stringed instruments, I once spent 30 minutes figuring out the first 4 notes of Californication on guitar, and then immediately realised "Oh. That's just an A-minor arpeggio". If I'd have spotted the pattern sooner, it would have sped things up for me, and I could easily have got bored and given up at minute 25. 

I'm saying this to reduce barriers to your playing. When looking for solutions, it can be tempted to try things that seem logical, but are actually much more long-winded when the best advice is to keep doing what you're already doing. 

Some important questions I'd ask if you were my student are:

Keep listening to the song. Do you know the words? Could you sing along to it on the radio? If you can, you know the order of the sections, it's just learning how the bassline sounds throughout. 

If not, it could be better to learn how the song ebbs and flows and what section bleeds into another.

Can you sing the bassline throughout? If not, you'll have to commit that to memory first. Learning something on an intsrument without knowing how it SHOULD sound is essentially playing a game of bop-it (Google it) for 5 minutes, where you're just trying to commit random movements to memory with no rhyme or reason. That's a LOOOOOOOT more difficult than learning the positions for sounds you already know. 

Do you know what the common sections are called? intro/verse/pre-chorus/chorus/bridge/middle 8/outro?

If you can answer these, we can probably help find what it is that's tripping you up.

Also, don't stress yourself out by playing along with the song (If you are). It's more important to take the time to learn it at whatever speed works for you, then get it to the correct speed when you know what you're playing. That's a lot easier than working on each section and getting it up to speed, and will compound your memory of the song. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by csmallett

[Dad3353]

I must say that I'm not overly impressed by the tutoring you're receiving, to judge by the dialogue above... Playing tunes and songs is fine, and is, indeed, the End Game, but learning to play a musical instrument (any musical instrument...) should, in my view, imply somewhere learning Music. All those frets, strings, numbers and patterns are crutches. Useful, when one is disabled, but not an ideal means of locomotion. It may be helpful to start thinking of the bass as a means of playing notes, rather than patterns. Learn where the notes are (yes, where's the 'E'..? then the 'F' etc..). Name and play those notes on each string. Learn and listen to Intervals (start with the easy ones: thirds, fifths...), and play them on each string, from each starting note. Learn and play chord notes... All of this, and much more, will make progress much, much faster. Keep playing tunes and songs, but start with very, very simple ones, and name each and every note as you're playing them. The fastest way to learn how to play is to do it all very slowly, moving on only once each step is taken. I would have thought that most good tutors did things this way. Bert Weedon had it right. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Dad3353

[Triumph_Rock]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I must say that I'm not overly impressed by the tutoring you're receiving, to judge by the dialogue above... Playing tunes and songs is fine, and is, indeed, the End Game, but learning to play a musical instrument (any musical instrument...) should, in my view, imply somewhere learning Music. All those frets, strings, numbers and patterns are crutches. Useful, when one is disabled, but not an ideal means of locomotion. It may be helpful to start thinking of the bass as a means of playing notes, rather than patterns. Learn where the notes are (yes, where's the 'E'..? then the 'F' etc..). Name and play those notes on each string. Learn and listen to Intervals (start with the easy ones: thirds, fifths...), and play them on each string, from each starting note. Learn and play chord notes... All of this, and much more, will make progress much, much faster. Keep playing tunes and songs, but start with very, very simple ones, and name each and every note as you're playing them. The fastest way to learn how to play is to do it all very slowly, moving on only once each step is taken. I would have thought that most good tutors did things this way. Bert Weedon had it right. 

I haven't said anything at all about my bass tutor on this thread. He's a nice guy, and I'm sure if I ask, or if he see's I'm suffering he will teach me what is required, he is extremely knowledgable. But he is very very busy, and out of lessons hard to contact. As he is in an internationally famous metalcore band.

[Dad3353]

37 minutes ago, Triumph_Rock said:

I haven't said anything at all about my bass tutor on this thread. He's a nice guy...

That's good to hear, and obviously I don't know the person at all. Just the same, and including much of the posts above, I don't see why the basics of learning an instrument have not been mentioned. It's fine working with patterns and muscle memory, but that really isn't the easy way forward, except for playing a four-note riff for a little while, then giving up. Do you do any exercises at all which use notes, in whatever form, such as scales, intervals or chord tones..? They really are the keys to playing music, and help enormously in training the ear, so as to be able to 'play by ear'. There's nothing wrong with learning a favourite 'lick', but that's really only for fun, once the real learning for the day has been done, as a reward, or 'instant satisfaction'. Just sayin'; maybe I'm just too old. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Dad3353

[lozkerr]

28 minutes ago, Triumph_Rock said:

I haven't said anything at all about my bass tutor on this thread. He's a nice guy, and I'm sure if I ask, or if he see's I'm suffering he will teach me what is required, he is extremely knowledgable. But he is very very busy, and out of lessons hard to contact. As he is in an internationally famous metalcore band.

Deffo a plus point - it's always good to learn from someone who walks the walk. My bass tutor is a gigging pro and I'm currently bribing Ellen O'Reilly not to laugh while she tries to teach me to sing and play via Skype. Experience definitely helps.

I thought Dad was a little harsh, but he did echo a point that occurred to me too - learning exclusively via tab can make it harder to progress beyond a certain point, unless you're happy just playing along to your favourite songs. Nothing wrong with that at all - we all want different things in our musical lives.

It definitely makes it easier to know where the notes are on the fretboard and how scales work. Even if you don't read the dots, seeing fret 5 on the E string and instantly knowing that's the low A, fret 6 is B flat, fret 5 on the G string is C and so on makes it easier to progress than relying on the numbers. I hope your tutor's helping you to master that relationship - if he isn't, he really should be, even if it's starting with just a simple major scale.

[Triumph_Rock]

I am very green to playing bass, I've only been learning seriously since July 23rd. I started learning on Jamplay, but started learning with my bass tutor on the 10th of October. My tutor is very happy with my progress. I'm sure he will teach me what has been mentioned by Dad3353 eventually. Every teacher has different ideas and approach to teaching, thats why I was told its best to find the teacher that suits an individual. One reason I picked mine, is because he walks the walk so to speak.

I asked this question here, to see if there is anything I hadn't of thought of to try, and to see if some of my ideas are good ones or not. And I have got a wonderfully diverse collection of answers.

[lozkerr]

37 minutes ago, Triumph_Rock said:

I asked this question here, to see if there is anything I hadn't of thought of to try, and to see if some of my ideas are good ones or not. And I have got a wonderfully diverse collection of answers.

If you've gone in that time from complete n00b to learning songs and, crucially, being self-critical about it, you've done very, very well. Big-up rispek, and I hope you really enjoy your journey. You'll get a lot of satisfaction out of discovering what you can achieve on the bass.