AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Anyone got/tried both and have any opinions? I have had a Future Impact for about 2 years and it's really amazing, but I'm starting to consider replacing it with a Source Audio C4 Synth based on it sounding a bit more ''organic'' to my ears and the tracking seeming a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 @Quatschmacher will be the man to give you the best run down of the two, however I’ve owned both (still have the C4) and they both sound very good. There are things the FI can do that the C4 can’t, and things the C4 can do which the FI can’t, however for me the significant factor that made me get rid of my FI and seek a C4 is the difference in user interface. In my opinion the C4 is miles ahead in this regard simply due to how polished the Neuro mobile editor app and preset sharing ecosystem is. Makes it so quick and easy to edit, browse and share sounds. Since you’ve had your Future Impact for so long you’ve presumably grown accustomed to editing it though. Of course, the C4 doesn’t have onboard MIDI connections whereas the FI does, which may or may not be important to you. C4 is MIDI compatible - it just requires either a Neuro Hub or a gHost compatible MIDI switch such as the Disaster Area range of controllers which are able to connect directly to the C4 via USB. Also, you can “play” the Future Impact by plugging in a MIDI controller keyboard, effectively making it a digital synth module for keyboard players too, which is pretty cool. The C4 doesn’t do this but it may be of zero use to you anyway. Depending on your setup and whether or not you use a pedalboard, the difference in relative sizes of the units is pretty huge. The C4 is tiny compared to the Future Impact so if you’re tight on space it’s a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, AinsleyWalker said: Anyone got/tried both and have any opinions? I have had a Future Impact for about 2 years and it's really amazing, but I'm starting to consider replacing it with a Source Audio C4 Synth based on it sounding a bit more ''organic'' to my ears and the tracking seeming a bit better. I’ve written fairly extensively on the relative merits of each over the last year. Read my posts on here, Talkbass and The Gear Page. Just a few days ago, I posted some examples of sounds that each does that the other can’t on the C4 thread on Talkbass. @CameronJ has it right with the interface, Source Audio is really slick in that regard and has been why the C4 has taken off in such a big way since it was launched last August. SA is also very marketing-savvy. However, C4 still can’t touch the FI when it comes to oscillator options and precise envelope control. What do you mean by “organic”? If you mean it lacks the tuning variances and natural phasing of analogue, it’s very easy to program these in. Tracking is pretty similar on both pedals (though is quite patch-dependent). My honest opinion is that it’s totally worth it and justifiable to own and use both. Edited November 5, 2020 by Quatschmacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) @CameronJ @Quatschmacher thanks for the responses guys. What I meant by organic is hard to explain, but based on demoes I've watched the C4 just seems to sound more alive and warm than the FI. In terms of programming, I'm very familiar with the interface but no wizard as you've probably gathered from the many questions I've asked in your FI thread over the last year or so. In terms of tracking, I only really have issues if I want to play something like, going from a root to a 5th and switching strings. you have to make sure your playing is uber clean and almost have to pause between notes, it can be tricky to move up and down strings without glitching which makes playing some fast lines a bit tricky, but not always. Whereas the C4 doesn't seem to ever glitch and I've seen people fly around the neck in ways the FI could never handle (not that I'm aiming to do much crazy playing but it's nice to have the freedom) I have seen players use both, such as Dishan Abrahams, maybe that's the answer... Edited November 5, 2020 by AinsleyWalker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AinsleyWalker said: Whereas the C4 doesn't seem to ever glitch and I've seen people fly around the neck in ways the FI could never handle That’s really not the case. The C4 will glitch if not played cleanly and clean technique enables getting around on both pedals equally well. As a testament to that, I leaned Greg Phillingaines’ line on Chaka Khan’s version of “We Can Work It Out” which has some fiendish licks in it and I recorded it using both C4 and FI and both pedals performed about the same. Edited November 5, 2020 by Quatschmacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AinsleyWalker said: What I meant by organic is hard to explain, but based on demoes I've watched the C4 just seems to sound more alive and warm than the FI. If you can point to particular demos (better still, point to which patches were being used) then I could potentially match them and compare and post a blind test. Edited November 5, 2020 by Quatschmacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just now, Quatschmacher said: That’s really not the case. The C4 will glitch if not played cleanly and clean technique enables getting around on both pedals equally doable. As a testament to that, I leaned Greg Phillingaines’ line on Chaka Khan’s version of “We Can Work It Out” which has some fiendish licks in it and I recorded it using both C4 and FI and both pedals performed about the same. Hmm ok interesting. If shops weren't shut I'd just go and test out the C4 myself to see! Just for the record, I don't usually have any major tracking issues with the FI, it just doesn't seem to like certain specific movements or quick jumps at times, but I've yet to find myself unable to play certain songs or lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I have both and although I haven't yet had a proper dive into the C4, I find the FI more intuitive to use. Both sound fantastic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: If you can point to particular demos (better still, point to which patches were being used) then I could potentially match them and compare and post a blind test. Urm well I've basically just watched some of the first demoes that came up on Youtube, Nathan Navarro for example. It's not so much that specific patches or sounds I heard were better, but the overall general character of the patches shown made me think that it might suit what I go for more (which is often a more simple Moog-like tone, something thick and warm often with a quick attack, like anything on Kaytranada's album '99.9%') Sometimes I find the most basic synth sounds the hardest to recreate/emulate with the FI. I'm generally very happy with my own patches but there just seems to be a little something missing from the more basic ones no matter how much I tweak the settings/EQ. Maybe it's my programming. Edited November 5, 2020 by AinsleyWalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, AinsleyWalker said: Hmm ok interesting. If shops weren't shut I'd just go and test out the C4 myself to see! Just for the record, I don't usually have any major tracking issues with the FI, it just doesn't seem to like certain specific movements or quick jumps at times, but I've yet to find myself unable to play certain songs or lines. It’s not so much quick jumps. It’s possible to play pretty fast semiquaver lines, the key is to make sure the previous note is muted before following note is struck. The only artefact as such is a product of the FI’s fast tracking: it spits out the last-played note as soon as a trigger is detected but the time it takes for the pitch information to be read is slightly longer (as it needs to “see” a full waveform before pitch can be determined), so you sometimes hear a pitch blip as it jumps to the correct note, this is more noticeable with bigger intervals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 minute ago, AinsleyWalker said: Urm well I've basically just watched some of the first demoes that came up on Youtube, Nathan Navarro for example. It's not so much that specific patches or sounds I heard were better, but the overall general character of the patches shown made me think that it might suit what I go for more (which is often a more simple Moog-like tone, like anything on Kaytranada's album '99.9%') Sometimes I find the most basic synth sounds the hardest to recreate/emulate with the FI. I'm generally very happy with my own patches but there just seems to be a little something missing from the more basic ones no matter how much I tweak the settings/EQ. Maybe it's my programming. Nathan’s videos with the FI are old v2 ones. The tracking and sound possibilities have been greatly enhanced since then. What do you mean by “basic synth sounds”? Bear in mind, some lines on records are made using polysynths in unison mode which allow the stacking of many oscillators on a single note (up to 48 in the case of a 16-voice, 3-oscillator synth). Neither the C4 or FI will be able to get close to that kind of craziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: It’s not so much quick jumps. It’s possible to play pretty fast semiquaver lines, the key is to make sure the previous note is muted before following note is struck. The only artefact as such is a product of the FI’s fast tracking: it spits out the last-played note as soon as a trigger is detected but the time it takes for the pitch information to be read is slightly longer (as it needs to “see” a full waveform before pitch can be determined), so you sometimes hear a pitch blip as it jumps to the correct note, this is more noticeable with bigger intervals. Yeah from my experience with the FI I definitely agree with all of that, especially the muting part, makes you aware of tidily you're playing/need to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Here’s an interesting exercise: same line played on a Moog Subsequent 37, C4 and FI. Sadly I didn’t match the volume levels properly which makes it seem like the FI is weaker than the others. https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/DQbpZBKtTppoppVY8 https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/uu1Ky3v1iDc4ujH67 https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/ReySVmgchkcLcups5 Edited November 5, 2020 by Quatschmacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: Nathan’s videos with the FI are old v2 ones. The tracking and sound possibilities have been greatly enhanced since then. What do you mean by “basic synth sounds”? Bear in mind, some lines on records are made using polysynths in unison mode which allow the stacking of many oscillators on a single note (up to 48 in the case of a 16-voice, 3-oscillator synth). Neither the C4 or FI will be able to get close to that kind of craziness. Sorry I meant Nathan's C4 video, I thought you were asking about which demoes I'd seen of that pedal. In terms of FI demoes, I've not watched that many, basically I watched Dishan Abraham's episode on That Pedal Show in late 2018 after already being interested in the FI and his demo sold me. By basic synth sounds I mean sounds that do not feature drastic effects such as LFOs, pitch shifting, envelopes etc. The kind of synth sounds you hear used in say a lot of pop/rnb/hip hop (not necessarily talking a big sub sound) 99.9% features a lot of that kind of sound. I can program in a sound that is more or less identical to what I'm after, but it'll just sound off in ways I can't explain haha... Not enough for it to be an issue when playing, but enough for me to be constantly tweaking . Edited November 5, 2020 by AinsleyWalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: Here’s an interesting exercise: same line played on a Moog Subsequent 37, C4 and FI. Sadly I didn’t match the volume levels properly which makes it seem like the FI is weaker than the others. https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/DQbpZBKtTppoppVY8 https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/uu1Ky3v1iDc4ujH67 https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/ReySVmgchkcLcups5 They all sound great! I do think that part of my issue in general is just that bar the FI, I'm very inexperienced with programming. Is it possible for you to send me this patch so I could load it up and compare to my own? Edited November 5, 2020 by AinsleyWalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AinsleyWalker said: Sorry I meant Nathan's C4 video, I thought you were asking about which demoes I'd seen of that pedal. Sorry, that was my mistake! 5 minutes ago, AinsleyWalker said: Is it possible for you to send me this patch so I could load it up and compare to my own? I shared both the FI and C4 versions of this patch on the respective C4 and FI platforms: https://auraplug.com/fidatabase2/downloads/only-on-paper/ https://neuro.sourceaudio.net/preset/ZzaOJACaMw https://neuro.sourceaudio.net/preset/U1nCGeVgKY Edited November 5, 2020 by Quatschmacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: Sorry, that was my mistake! I shared both the FI and C4 versions of this patch on the respective C4 and FI platforms - search for “only on paper”. Sweet, I'll take a look later and see what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, AinsleyWalker said: Sweet, I'll take a look later and see what's going on. I’ve included direct links in the amended original post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AinsleyWalker Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said: I’ve included direct links in the amended original post. Sorry I'm not sure which original post you mean? EDIT: Don't worry, I refreshed the page and can now see them. Edited November 5, 2020 by AinsleyWalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4&5 String Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) I have the Future Impact. The C4 is easier to program and smaller.. If I had another chance I would pick the C4. Again not knocking the Future Impact. Its is legendary in some ways, but the C4 Source Audio answers all question with total professionalism and sounds great. Some mention Nathan Navarro. I believe he uses the C4 now from using the Future Impact. He is another not only a good bassist but he is super friendly and answers questions pretty rapidly. Edited November 8, 2020 by 4&5 String 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) There's just been a really good (albeit somewhat unexpected!) discussion of some of the key pros and cons of both pedals at the end of Bass Tone thread that Q has also linked to on the FI and C4 threads. Plus a couple of clips from Q nailing the keyboard bass synth tone from Mel C's recently released album. I found the discussion very helpful and some pieces of the jigsaw have finally fallen into place for me! Edited November 8, 2020 by Al Krow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatschmacher Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 05/11/2020 at 10:33, CameronJ said: There are things the FI can do that the C4 can’t, and things the C4 can do which the FI can’t, however for me the significant factor that made me get rid of my FI and seek a C4 is the difference in user interface. In my opinion the C4 is miles ahead in this regard simply due to how polished the Neuro mobile editor app and preset sharing ecosystem is. Makes it so quick and easy to edit, browse and share sounds. Since you’ve had your Future Impact for so long you’ve presumably grown accustomed to editing it though. The gap in this particular area has now closed significantly with the release of FI v3.60 which adds much improved patch management and embedded access to the presets in the cloud. It’s still not as slick as the SA cloud platform but is way better than it was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) Has anybody compared the Panda Future Impact side-by-side against the Source Audio C4? The C4 seems to have the technical edge, but is that right? From a physical perspective, the C4 is more pedalboard-friendly, though you can spend another chunk of money on a smaller conversion box to re-house the FI to part-mitigate against that. The C4''s MIDI input is USB, which limits the choice of external standalone MIDI controllers. OTOH, the FI has a 5-pin DIN MIDI, but it is pernickety about what you can connect to it (both computer-FI and standalone controllers). The the C4 sells at approx £220 whereas FI is 50% more, at ~ £330. Any thoughts? Edited June 20, 2021 by prowla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlitos71 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I think this is cover in other topics, surely @Quatschmacher is the man to answer ✊ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Indeed @Quatschmacher is best placed to respond, but I can unequivocally state that the FI is superior to the C4 for me in all areas that matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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