Some VERY good news at last - live music back by the Spring?

[Count Bassy]

On 05/08/2021 at 16:35, Cuzzie said:

smoking affects them and others with passive smoke.

 

Seatbelts save them and someone for example in front of them if you are in the back seat as you may cannonball against them causing an injury to another passenger, or if you are ejected from the car this causing another accident.

 

vaccines are slightly different.

 

As I read your post it seems to me that, from your own comparison, both seat belts and smoking are actually very similar to not having the vaccine. In each case you are putting others peoples' lives at risk.

[Downunderwonder]

17 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Phil - the Aus / NZ 'zero covid' model is definitely worth keeping an eye on as it is a clear alternative to one being adopted by the US, UK and Europe. There was no play book for Covid for any government to follow other than the WHO shouldn't have taken such a supine position and should have encouraged other nations to cut travel to China much, much sooner. There were understandably lots of plaudits early on in the pandemic for the Aus / NZ model but their zero-Covid approach is starting to look a little threadbare. Came across this article which you might find interesting. Right now I would much rather be a 'free' citizen in the UK than facing another 12 months of lockdowns in Aus & NZ.

 

Covid-19 - Aus & NZ (21-08).pdf 650.3 kB · 4 downloads

Some things to consider.

 

To go zero you need a very well supervised border. The UK and Ireland could yet go that way.

 

If the UK petrie dish experiment goes pear shaped you could get a new even gnarlier variant than Delta with a sufficiently modded spike that evades all the vaccines. That would effectively be a groundhog day for Covid but on a different continent.

 

New South Wales is in the kaka no doubt. They won't be out of some kind of lockdown any time soon for sure. Too much non compliance, and leaving it all very late at each stage of concern.

 

The rest of Aus stands a chance of getting back to zero and only gets one chance to try.

 

I'll take prospect of lockdowns now over the misery the rest of the world has already suffered! Here has been pretty much all go since July last year.

 

NZ only has to keep it out for a few more months to get everyone vaccinated.

[Downunderwonder]

There's a non posting bug going around.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Downunderwonder

[Downunderwonder]

Cough.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Downunderwonder

[Downunderwonder]

Cough.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Downunderwonder

[FinnDave]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Cough.

 

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Cough.

That's a nasty persistent cough you've got there, better get tested and isolate until you get the result.

[Cuzzie]

6 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

 

As I read your post it seems to me that, from your own comparison, both seat belts and smoking are actually very similar to not having the vaccine. In each case you are putting others peoples' lives at risk.

I get what you are saying and it’s a longer discussion than grasped moments of typing whilst at work. Believe me, I get what happens with Covid probably more than most having worked on one of the first victims in my hospital and lost a relative to it (as just a couple examples).

Briefly speaking - There is work out there about unvaccinated potentially allowing themselves to be a reservoir for mutation.

 

Vaccinated can still pass the virus on but will hopefully suffer less.

 

The natural history of viruses is to mutate, but it must be mentioned the more ‘successful’ the virus is (as becoming more virulent) it will also kill itself off as it will die with the host.

 

We will Probably have too up boosters yearly (this is already being researched and volunteers testing) which will subtly tweak the vaccine to the ‘new variant’ which is essentially what happens with the flu vaccine.

 

There will be a key percentage of people that will need to be vaccinated to keep things in a decent status quo and under wraps - this may well be a big enough majority to be fine.

 

People will have genuine concern about 1 or all the vaccines (esp mRNA new tech) and you cannot choose easily which one you have.

 

Re smoking/seatbelts vs vaccines - I am not aware of too many cases where you smoke in a public place or don’t wear a seatbelt on your way to work and you lose your job, are not allowed to enter an entertainment place or are stopped from travel, which is the main crux of my feelings on this and how far civil liberties will/could be curtailed for people.

 

Now in my job I accept that I HAD to get various vaccines and do various things, BUT I knew in advance of starting the profession. For others, it’s a different kettle of fish conceptually.

 

Thats all I am discussing in a nutshell before we starting coming out with examples and even tying It to racist terms (🤷🏾‍♂️ 😡)

[Al Krow]

Good post @Cuzzie, thank you. Couple of points:

 

The only reason for illustrating with people seeking to ban the N-word is that it's another example of society not accepting anti-social behaviour which can cause hurt i.e. of society restricting "liberties" for the greater good. But let's drop that if it's not a pertinent example and stick with the bans on smoking and not wearing seat belts as more on point comparisons.

 

I do entirely agree with this from Count Bassy:

 

7 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

As I read your post it seems to me that, from your own comparison, both seat belts and smoking are actually very similar to not having the vaccine. In each case you are putting others peoples' lives at risk.

 

You make some good points in your post to counter. However when you say:

 

47 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Re smoking/seatbelts vs vaccines - I am not aware of too many cases where you smoke in a public place or don’t wear a seatbelt on your way to work and you lose your job, are not allowed to enter an entertainment place or are stopped from travel, which is the main crux of my feelings on this and how far civil liberties will/could be curtailed for people.

 

There's a very simple reason for this isn't there? Going into a public space just once and infecting others with Covid can directly result in many deaths. That is way more serious than smoking just once in a public place or arriving somewhere not having worn a seatbelt. 

[Cuzzie]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Good post @Cuzzie, thank you. Couple of points:

 

The only reason for illustrating with people seeking to ban the N-word is that it's another example of society not accepting anti-social behaviour which can cause hurt i.e. of society restricting "liberties" for the greater good. But let's drop that if it's not a pertinent example and stick with the bans on smoking and not wearing seat belts as more on point comparisons.

 

I do entirely agree with this from Count Bassy:

 

 

You make some good points in your post to counter. However when you say:

 

 

There's a very simple reason for this isn't there? Going into a public space just once and infecting others with Covid can directly result in many deaths. That is way more serious than smoking just once in a public place or arriving somewhere not having worn a seatbelt. 

 

If that person gets the virus, If it mutates, is it’s passed on, if it mutates further, if it’s passed on etc.

 

On one hand apparently Covid deaths are way down the list and everything should be opened up but not for everyone…..unemployment rates should where possible not be added to.

 

Look it’s a difficult argument and will be circular with points on both sides, examples given etc.

 

only way to check would be an animal study with animals of a similar immunogenicity to humans-vaccinate a load, infect them and see how the virus behaves and if a key percentage of animals are vaxed and no detriment happens to the Comminity - there is your answer 

Hate crimes are just that - crimes, this isn’t something based on hate.

[Al Krow]

Went to a Prom at the Albert Hall with my 21 y/o last night, lovely night out. Maybe all the more special as it was the first such outing in 18 months. Everyone was asked to show either a negative lateral flow test or a vaccination card before entry; didn't seem too onerous.

 

Coming back to not getting sacked for smoking in a public place: actually on reflection I don't think you're correct - I suspect that if someone was found smoking in the work canteen their first offence would be a yellow card from HR and a second would be a swift red card, so yes they could likely lose their jobs over it.

 

Having said all that, I'm very much with you on the general principle of personal liberties i.e. massively pro defending them, where they do not cause harm to others - that is the key balance; my beef is primarily with anti-vax propaganda leading to too many entirely unnecessary deaths. 

[Cuzzie]

14 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Went to a Prom at the Albert Hall with my 21 y/o last night, lovely night out. Maybe all the more special as it was the first such outing in 18 months. Everyone was asked to show either a negative lateral flow test or a vaccination card before entry; didn't seem too onerous.

 

Coming back to not getting sacked for smoking in a public place: actually on reflection I don't think you're correct - I suspect that if someone was found smoking in the work canteen their first offence would be a yellow card from HR and a second would be a swift red card, so yes they could likely lose their jobs over it.

 

Having said all that, I'm very much with you on the general principle of personal liberties i.e. massively pro defending them, where they do not cause harm to others - that is the key balance; my beef is primarily with anti-vax propaganda leading to too many entirely unnecessary deaths. 

that smoking example is people being plain dumb where they probably have a designated smoking area - if that’s the case - they should lose their job.

 

No problem with lateral flows - in all likelihood should be for vaxed and non vaxed to be completely fair/true as both can carry and pass on.

 

propaganda and scaremonger artists without solid evidence are idiots - I have met people who think the vaccines are made from foetuses.

 

The people who may have genuine and personal concerns are more the group I am thinking of

[drTStingray]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Went to a Prom at the Albert Hall with my 21 y/o last night, lovely night out. Maybe all the more special as it was the first such outing in 18 months. Everyone was asked to show either a negative lateral flow test or a vaccination card before entry; didn't seem too onerous.

This sounds great.

 

However having caught the news headlines last night which covered Man U’s 5-1 win over Leeds - and seemingly a capacity crowd (and all other Premiership matches having a similar situation) I wonder whether similar precautions re Covid are taken, will this will be a super spreader situation followed by a huge spike in infections in a couple of weeks? Time will tell I guess. 

[Al Krow]

On 15/08/2021 at 05:09, Downunderwonder said:

Some things to consider.

 

To go zero you need a very well supervised border. The UK and Ireland could yet go that way.

 

If the UK petrie dish experiment goes pear shaped you could get a new even gnarlier variant than Delta with a sufficiently modded spike that evades all the vaccines. That would effectively be a groundhog day for Covid but on a different continent.

 

New South Wales is in the kaka no doubt. They won't be out of some kind of lockdown any time soon for sure. Too much non compliance, and leaving it all very late at each stage of concern.

 

The rest of Aus stands a chance of getting back to zero and only gets one chance to try.

 

I'll take prospect of lockdowns now over the misery the rest of the world has already suffered! Here has been pretty much all go since July last year.

 

NZ only has to keep it out for a few more months to get everyone vaccinated.

I read that NZ is currently going into a 3 day national lockdown over just ONE case?!! Is that correct? 

[Downunderwonder]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I read that NZ is currently going into a 3 day national lockdown over just ONE case?!! Is that correct? 

One case yesterday. 9 more today.....likely 100 tomorrow based on party people partying unaware....1000 in another 2 to 3 days. Then we find out if we caught it in time by locking down with the 1. That's the logic.

[PaulWarning]

17 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

One case yesterday. 9 more today.....likely 100 tomorrow based on party people partying unaware....1000 in another 2 to 3 days. Then we find out if we caught it in time by locking down with the 1. That's the logic.

aren't they just putting off the inevitable? wouldn't their efforts better be served by getting everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible?

I understand the vaccination program is not going well

Edited August 18, 2021 by PaulWarning

[Downunderwonder]

27 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

aren't they just putting off the inevitable? wouldn't their efforts better be served by getting everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible?

I understand the vaccination program is not going well

Keywords: ''as possible''. There is only so much vaccine coming our way each month. Bookings for first jabs were out to late Sep by this afternoon. At the rate the Delta spreads we would have everyone infected by then if we just carried on like normal.

 

Plan is the snap lockdown takes us back down to zero in a week or so with more livable restrictions ongoing until we are sure it's gone again.

[peteb]

Well, no rehearsals with the cover band for a couple of weeks - the drummer has just tested positive for covid. He is feeling a bit poorly but not too bad, unlike the singer's wife who caught it a bit ago and is getting better, but taking time to recover completely. 

 

The thing is that Paul has played a couple of festivals with his other band over the past two weekends. I wonder who else has caught it from that event.