Some VERY good news at last - live music back by the Spring?

[Guest]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

Something to do isn’t it?

Tuesday 6 April will be the most action packed day of my year, for sure.

[BassBunny]

24 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Anyone else intending to have got their 2020/2021 tax return submitted by Wed 7 Apr?

Yep.

[steantval]

12 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Do we?

Normality is austerity and growing inequality and the lack of government action on climate change. Normality is Billionaire wealth increasing while homeless people die on the streets. 

Normality is never being able to afford to buy a house, being saddled with a lifetime of student debt, and zero hours contracts.

Normality is the problem.

Humans (Homo Sapiens), we are a species of highly intelligent (questionable at times) primates, as a species we rely on complex social structures and social interacting.

The pandemic has virtually ceased social interacting (normality) and until that returns, unfortunately none of your issues listed will be high on the list of priorities.

Edited February 1, 2021 by steantval

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

Did it Dec/Jan

Doing one's tax return two months before the end of the tax year seems a bit fatalistic.

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Doing one's tax return two months before the end of the tax year seems a bit fatalistic.

I wasn’t gonna say anything...

[Guest]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

I wasn’t gonna say anything...

Still got another two months of waving a begging bowl under Rishi Sunak's nose to looking forward to 😀

[taunton-hobbit]

2 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Anyone else intending to have got their 2020/2021 tax return submitted by Wed 7 Apr?

Yup - done. (or rather my accountant will do it as a matter of routine)

😎

Edited February 1, 2021 by taunton-hobbit

[EBS_freak]

Don't get too excited, from 06/04/23 (it will soon be upon us) we've got MTD for ITSA (Making tax digital for income tax self assessment) to look forward to. Bring on those quarterly submissions.

@taunton-hobbit- that's 4 times the accountancy fees for you 😜 - we may even have started gigging again by them. Maybe. Or the planet will be dead.

Edited February 1, 2021 by EBS_freak

[geoham]

12 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Do we?

Normality is austerity and growing inequality and the lack of government action on climate change. Normality is Billionaire wealth increasing while homeless people die on the streets. 

Normality is never being able to afford to buy a house, being saddled with a lifetime of student debt, and zero hours contracts.

Normality is the problem.

I do agree with the sentiment here, and agree that society needs to change fundamentally. However, the pandemic has made this much worse in my view.

Inequility has been made much worse. Those at the very top - Jeff Bezos springs to mind - have increased their wealth hugely. Those in low paid jobs, like retail or hospitality lucky enough to still have a job are largely furloughed. Furloughed workers earning above average wages are having a tough time too, given the 80% of £2500 before deductions cap. A take home of about £1660.

Businesses of all sizes are going bust at an alarming rate. Many self-employed tradesmen, taxi-drivers etc are struggling to make a living. All while the biggest companies continue to operate, having been handed an effective monopoly in the name of social distancing. I can't buy my son a game for his Xbox at the local independent games shop, nor go clothes shopping. But I can get just about anything I need from Tesco or Amazon.

George

[DaveFry]

Jack Casady interview last August :

” I personally think, and it’s just a stab, a guess, there’s no science behind it, but I just have a feeling that this is a three year endeavor for the mainstay of this new normal, so to speak, and I think the shakedown is going to be three years and we should plan for that. “

https://glidemagazine.com/246845/jack-casady-of-hot-tuna-jefferson-airplane-delves-deep-on-hendrix-otis-achieving-that-tone-interview/

[taunton-hobbit]

At the risk of sounding paranoid ( Moi? ), the pandemic has handed the authorities world-wide the moment they've all been waiting for - the chance to cut out a vast number of small traders and have most trade go through large companies whose accountancy is ( ahem ) probably more accurate. The deliberate tactic of attempting to decimate cash money in circulation is a case in point ( I don't suppose drug dealers accept cards? ), in an attempt to put the brakes on the black economy. Governments simply don't want small traders, hence the encouraging of the out-of-town shopping centres populated by large retail ( now coming to an internet site near you ) which will open up an interesting debate as to the future purpose of  these leviathans.

Interesting times ......

😎

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Doing one's tax return two months before the end of the tax year seems a bit fatalistic.

I think tbf to Cuzzie, he almost certainly meant his 19/20 tax return (ie not his 20/21) which was due by 31 Jan.

Btw HMRC have given an extension to 28 Feb for online filing of 19/20 income tax returns in case any of you good folk didn't get yours done by 31 Jan. 

 

[mikel]

12 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

At the risk of sounding paranoid ( Moi? ), the pandemic has handed the authorities world-wide the moment they've all been waiting for - the chance to cut out a vast number of small traders and have most trade go through large companies whose accountancy is ( ahem ) probably more accurate. The deliberate tactic of attempting to decimate cash money in circulation is a case in point ( I don't suppose drug dealers accept cards? ), in an attempt to put the brakes on the black economy. Governments simply don't want small traders, hence the encouraging of the out-of-town shopping centres populated by large retail ( now coming to an internet site near you ) which will open up an interesting debate as to the future purpose of  these leviathans.

Interesting times ......

😎

But it tends to be small to medium size traders who pay their taxes, the really big ones manage to pay minimal tax, if at all. So where will the tax revenue come from?

[EBS_freak]

8 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

At the risk of sounding paranoid ( Moi? ), the pandemic has handed the authorities world-wide the moment they've all been waiting for - the chance to cut out a vast number of small traders and have most trade go through large companies whose accountancy is ( ahem ) probably more accurate. The deliberate tactic of attempting to decimate cash money in circulation is a case in point ( I don't suppose drug dealers accept cards? ), in an attempt to put the brakes on the black economy. Governments simply don't want small traders, hence the encouraging of the out-of-town shopping centres populated by large retail ( now coming to an internet site near you ) which will open up an interesting debate as to the future purpose of  these leviathans.

Interesting times ......

😎

Essentially, what the government want is everybody on PAYE.

[taunton-hobbit]

4 minutes ago, mikel said:

But it tends to be small to medium size traders who pay their taxes, the really big ones manage to pay minimal tax, if at all. So where will the tax revenue come from?

The number of huge companies that make cheap headlines for the tabloids is very small. The vast number of other large businesses have tax situations that are very straightforward and their taxes and vat are paid directly to HMRC. The only advantage of small business taxation is to the accountancy industry - you could probably increase VAT threshold to 200k+ without a significant dent, it costs HMRC more than it earns to chase small traders.

😎

[EBS_freak]

28 minutes ago, mikel said:

But it tends to be small to medium size traders who pay their taxes, the really big ones manage to pay minimal tax, if at all. So where will the tax revenue come from?

Well... I wouldn't agree with that at all.

Being a small trader, it's easier to be creative with accounts, blurring the lines between personal and commercial expense for example... it's easier to maximise your cash out of the business. It's easier to deal off the books in cash. Bought a new computer? Yes, that's for the business. A TV? Yes, that's for the business.

Additionally, payments of dividends out to a business owner, and say their spouse (who may not even do a days work for the company but are included by name only), maximise dividend payments out of the company. This brings more money into the shared household but without being subject to as much tax if it would as if only the true employee paid tax on their dividend. Of course, if you work for a larger company, you are a likely to be under the PAYE umbrella so taxed at source - but do appreciate you can still extract dividends. The pandemic has been really a really interesting rude awakening for those that have paid themselves a low wage and extract the majority of their earning from dividends... as Sunak doesn't appear to like people doing that... 

The really big companies pay minimal (corporation) tax - but they are still in line with the law (or should be) so in reality, they are better at tax avoidance as opposed to tax evasion. This is all within the boundaries of the law - and lets face it, they can invest the money so the bean counters can work out where the company is best placed to maximise profits and minimise operational costs. As T-H above states, the number of companies involved are relatively small - but say in the case of Amazon, it's worth remembering that they are an enabler for many other small businesses. The means a whole other stream of corporation tax and PAYE hanging off the bottom of those. Amazon offer up a shop front for independent traders, they create jobs not only within Amazon itself - but for the likes of third party couriers, manufacturers - such as cardboard box manufacturers...etc etc... and then when you factor in the likes of AWS, another Amazon offering, they are offering multiple businesses world class, international technology on which to host and build their online business. It simply makes zero sense for the government to p1ss off Amazon because the impact on so many reliant businesses would be catastrophic. Im not saying Amazon is right or wrong... but it's non-existence would have a MASSIVE impact on the UK economy... in fact, the world economy - that's how central it has become to the world's economy. They simply got super good at what they do - like most of the massive players... A world without Microsoft would put the economy and technology of the world back decades.

Edited February 1, 2021 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

13 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

 it costs HMRC more than it earns to chase small traders.

Historically yes, not so much now given the existence of HMRC's Connect system... and other data mining systems that aren't public knowledge.

[Al Krow]

15 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

When comes to deaths per capita head we are the worst of any country. By any comparison you are trying to bat away (yes, we are bigger than NZ etc) there is one that is the opposite (yes, we half the population of Japan and 20 times the deaths, and they are right next to China).every other modern nation (and many of the others) with our skills and our resources managed better. However much flag waving you want to do (and you really seem to want to do a lot), we have been presented with a crisis and we have failed to rise to the challenge.

Yes can't disagree with deaths per capita for wealthy nations nearly a year into this pandemic. We are shamefully top of the ladder here!

There is a strong link of virus deaths to obesity though. But that's not a simple topic - you have the anti body-shaming woke brigade, criticism that a sugar tax will unfairly hit the poorer members of society but who also account for greater obesity rates etc. etc. And socialist Scotland hasn't exactly covered itself in glory with drug related deaths which are the highest in the West. My point of mentioning the SNP is simply to point out that there are societal issues which run deeper than whether its a left or right wing administration at the helm. I'd love to think there is a magic wand here. Genuine question - what would you suggest?

15 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s as others have said with flag waiving - AZ is Swedish

No I don't think that is completely correct. AZ was formed between Swedish pharmaceutical company, Astra AB, and UK-based Zeneca Group plc (with originally > 50% of the joint shareholding relating to the UK group). AstraZeneca’s corporate headquarters are in the United Kingdom, while its R&D headquarters are n Sweden, with major centres of R&D excellence in both the UK and USA.

But specifically the research for the AZ Covid vaccine was carried out at Oxford Uni. The UK Govt encouraged the partnership between Oxford Uni and AZ rather than with the US Merck (to head off the risk of Trump imposing a vaccine export ban if the vaccine was manufactured in the US). AZ are providing the production expertise. The R&D was led by Oxford Uni.

My issue with a lot of the comments is that folk seem to only be willing to pick up on the negatives and not give corresponding credit where its due e.g. on the development and roll out of the UK vaccination programme.

[Woodinblack]

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

There is a strong link of virus deaths to obesity though. But that's not a simple topic - you have the anti body-shaming woke brigade, criticism that a sugar tax will unfairly hit the poorer members of society but who also account for greater obesity rates etc. etc.

The sugar tax was supposed to be put in by cameron but he backed down as quite a lot of wealthy tory donations come from sugar companies.

I don't recal any critisism of sugar tax affecting the poorest members of society, it is them who need more work.

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

And socialist Scotland hasn't exactly covered itself in glory with drug related deaths which are the highest in the West. My point of mentioning the SNP is simply to point out that there are societal issues which run deeper than whether its a left or right wing administration at the helm. I'd love to think there is a magic wand here. Genuine question - what would you suggest?

I wasn't aware that scotland was socialist - other than they are what our mainstream was a decade ago, but haven't lurched right like us.

I would assume the societal issues are related more to employment and the loss of it mostly north in scotland in old heavy industries that were closed down.

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

But specifically the research for the AZ Covid vaccine was carried out at Oxford Uni. The UK Govt encouraged the partnership between Oxford Uni and AZ rather than with the US Merck (to head off the risk of Trump imposing a vaccine export ban if the vaccine was manufactured in the US). AZ are providing the production expertise. The R&D was led by Oxford Uni.

By a group of many nationalities, like we used to excell at here as we had the european drug agency and other europe wide research. Presumably something we won;t have as much of in the future?

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

My issue with a lot of the comments is that folk seem to only be willing to pick up on the negatives and not give corresponding credit where its due e.g. on the development and roll out of the UK vaccination programme.

I think people are in general happy to give credit where it is due, but maybe not so many people are so laser focused as you on whether something is british or not?

[mikel]

54 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Well... I wouldn't agree with that at all.

Being a small trader, it's easier to be creative with accounts, blurring the lines between personal and commercial expense for example... it's easier to maximise your cash out of the business. It's easier to deal off the books in cash. Bought a new computer? Yes, that's for the business. A TV? Yes, that's for the business.

Additionally, payments of dividends out to a business owner, and say their spouse (who may not even do a days work for the company but are included by name only), maximise dividend payments out of the company. This brings more money into the shared household but without being subject to as much tax if it would as if only the true employee paid tax on their dividend. Of course, if you work for a larger company, you are a likely to be under the PAYE umbrella so taxed at source - but do appreciate you can still extract dividends. The pandemic has been really a really interesting rude awakening for those that have paid themselves a low wage and extract the majority of their earning from dividends... as Sunak doesn't appear to like people doing that... 

The really big companies pay minimal (corporation) tax - but they are still in line with the law (or should be) so in reality, they are better at tax avoidance as opposed to tax evasion. This is all within the boundaries of the law - and lets face it, they can invest the money so the bean counters can work out where the company is best placed to maximise profits and minimise operational costs. As T-H above states, the number of companies involved are relatively small - but say in the case of Amazon, it's worth remembering that they are an enabler for many other small businesses. The means a whole other stream of corporation tax and PAYE hanging off the bottom of those. Amazon offer up a shop front for independent traders, they create jobs not only within Amazon itself - but for the likes of third party couriers, manufacturers - such as cardboard box manufacturers...etc etc... and then when you factor in the likes of AWS, another Amazon offering, they are offering multiple businesses world class, international technology on which to host and build their online business. It simply makes zero sense for the government to p1ss off Amazon because the impact on so many reliant businesses would be catastrophic. Im not saying Amazon is right or wrong... but it's non-existence would have a MASSIVE impact on the UK economy... in fact, the world economy - that's how central it has become to the world's economy. They simply got super good at what they do - like most of the massive players... A world without Microsoft would put the economy and technology of the world back decades.

So you can base you company offshore and avoid tax can you? If the government are afraid to "fosters off" Amazon by making them pay due taxes for profits made in Britain then they are helping to create a monopoly, and robbing the public of tax revenue. Amazon are allowed to get away with unfair competition, they have become omnipotent through dodgy employmen and taxation practices. I am certain they would not stop selling in Britain if made to cough up their fare share of taxes, all businesses need is a level playing field. I have to, rightly, pay my taxes, why should ridiculously wealthy companies, who are the most able, be allowed to escape our tax system and put British companies under more unfair pressure.

[krispn]

Socialist Scotland 😆

Edited February 1, 2021 by krispn

[stingrayPete1977]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Historically yes, not so much now given the existence of HMRC's Connect system... and other data mining systems that aren't public knowledge.

[krispn]

I think most people who have commented are as keen to see the Covid crisis resolved as the next person but to only focus on rose tinted positives when there have been many missteps is a bit galling for some. Sure the glass is half full for those of us one financially comfortable enough to see it through. If on the other hand one is struggling with all the associated impacts of reduced wages, isolation, trying to entertain kids, manage bills, mortgage etc etc then it’s hard to think “I know life is shi8 just now but those lads in Oxford did well!” 
 

Maybe once it’s all over folks can look back and appreciate the human endeavour of developing a ‘quick vaccine’ but it’s maybe hard for many to not feel like they’re looking at a generational impact in terms of austerity, tax increases, job security and prospects for them, their kids and the long term educational impact on their children’s futures/employment opportunities etc. 

Again as has already been said we’re all keen to see positive outcomes but the long term impact has already begun. Still those lads in Oxford did well! 

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, mikel said:

So you can base you company offshore and avoid tax can you? If the government are afraid to "fosters off" Amazon by making them pay due taxes for profits made in Britain then they are helping to create a monopoly, and robbing the public of tax revenue. Amazon are allowed to get away with unfair competition, they have become omnipotent through dodgy employmen and taxation practices. I am certain they would not stop selling in Britain if made to cough up their fare share of taxes, all businesses need is a level playing field. I have to, rightly, pay my taxes, why should ridiculously wealthy companies, who are the most able, be allowed to escape our tax system and put British companies under more unfair pressure.

You're shouting at the wrong person.

In answer to your questions, yes you can - a lot of celebs have been caught out doing just that. Not illegal - as it's avoidance, not evasion. Just doesn't sit right with most - quite rightly.

The big corporations that are generally referred to, do pay the requisite taxes that are due in the UK - and in Amazons case, they, "they" been Amazon Luxembourg, adhere to those rules . The "perceived" problem seems to be with the tax laws that Amazon are correctly following - just so happens the tax liabilities for Amazon's circumstances aren't as high as the public would like to see.

It may be a monopoly - but it's a very important monopoly - and that's the crux of the issue. Pull the wrong pieces of string and it all comes crashing down. The government know that, Amazon know that. Stalemate. HMRC are well aware of who is paying what - and they will have done the calculations to see in which position the UK is better off - pulling the Amazon string or not.

Edited February 1, 2021 by EBS_freak

[MacDaddy]

7 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

You're shouting at the wrong person.

In answer to your questions, yes you can - a lot of celebs have been caught out doing just that. Not illegal - as it's avoidance, not evasion. Just doesn't sit right with most - quite rightly.

The big corporations that are generally referred to, do pay the requisite taxes that are due in the UK - and in Amazons case, they, "they" been Amazon Luxembourg, adhere to those rules . The "perceived" problem seems to be with the tax laws that Amazon are correctly following - just so happens the tax liabilities aren't as high as the public would like to see.

It may be a monopoly - but it's a very important monopoly - and that's the crux of the issue. Pull the wrong pieces of string and it all comes crashing down. The government know that, Amazon know that. Stalemate. HMRC are well aware of who is paying what - and they will have done to calculations to see which position the UK is better off - pulling the Amazon string or not.

 

The problem isn't Amazon (et al) paying less tax, the problem are the people who create the laws which mean Amazon (et al) can pay less tax.