Some VERY good news at last - live music back by the Spring?

[EBS_freak]

Just now, MacDaddy said:

 

The problem isn't Amazon (et al) paying less tax, the problem are the people who create the laws which mean Amazon (et al) can pay less tax.

The thing is, the rule book is so, so, so massive, changing them is very difficult. There's people where their sole purpose in life is to find the loopholes in the tax rules and exploit them. That is not illegal. The thing is, in plugging the loophole, you may be inadvertently opening a much bigger one. Thats how complex all the interactions between entities are.

The tax laws aren't like a board game - far from it!

[Cuzzie]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Yes can't disagree with deaths per capita for wealthy nations nearly a year into this pandemic. We are shamefully top of the ladder here!

There is a strong link of virus deaths to obesity though. But that's not a simple topic - you have the anti body-shaming woke brigade, criticism that a sugar tax will unfairly hit the poorer members of society but who also account for greater obesity rates etc. etc. And socialist Scotland hasn't exactly covered itself in glory with drug related deaths which are the highest in the West. My point of mentioning the SNP is simply to point out that there are societal issues which run deeper than whether its a left or right wing administration at the helm. I'd love to think there is a magic wand here. Genuine question - what would you suggest?

No I don't think that is completely correct. AZ was formed between Swedish pharmaceutical company, Astra AB, and UK-based Zeneca Group plc (with originally > 50% of the joint shareholding relating to the UK group). AstraZeneca’s corporate headquarters are in the United Kingdom, while its R&D headquarters are n Sweden, with major centres of R&D excellence in both the UK and USA.

But specifically the research for the AZ Covid vaccine was carried out at Oxford Uni. The UK Govt encouraged the partnership between Oxford Uni and AZ rather than with the US Merck (to head off the risk of Trump imposing a vaccine export ban if the vaccine was manufactured in the US). AZ are providing the production expertise. The R&D was led by Oxford Uni.

My issue with a lot of the comments is that folk seem to only be willing to pick up on the negatives and not give corresponding credit where its due e.g. on the development and roll out of the UK vaccination programme.

Point encapsulated and I should have said part Swedish - my fault.

The part about the vaccine cost not being at cost or the same for all still counts - yes it’s great we have a vaccine, we all want that, but it’s the British flag waving altruistic cost thing where it’s not actually fully british, and it’s not cost for all either I was pointing out

The fact we have a vaccine and it’s being rolled out is good, and let’s hope it continues to go forward and not unravel. Questioning things like decisions to elongate the period between 2 doses is actually valid - why is it done on no/little/partial scientific evidence - could it be because the supply and supply lines isn’t as good as they say, and they are dressing it up differently?

Similarly what if they start mixing the types vaccines for doses - why is that? 
 

Do we accept something is better than nothing - probably yes, should we question these things and not jump for joy with blind optimism - definitely yes

[mikel]

6 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

You're shouting at the wrong person.

In answer to your questions, yes you can - a lot of celebs have been caught out doing just that. Not illegal - as it's avoidance, not evasion. Just doesn't sit right with most - quite rightly.

The big corporations that are generally referred to, do pay the requisite taxes that are due in the UK - and in Amazons case, they, "they" been Amazon Luxembourg, adhere to those rules . The "perceived" problem seems to be with the tax laws that Amazon are correctly following - just so happens the tax liabilities for Amazon's circumstances aren't as high as the public would like to see.

It may be a monopoly - but it's a very important monopoly - and that's the crux of the issue. Pull the wrong pieces of string and it all comes crashing down. The government know that, Amazon know that. Stalemate. HMRC are well aware of who is paying what - and they will have done the calculations to see in which position the UK is better off - pulling the Amazon string or not.

You are still saying Amazon would pull out of Britain if they had to pay tax on their profits in this country. They would not, they wouldn't give up all that revenue. If the government allow big multinationals to do as they wish, at the expense of the local competition, it is tantamount to fraud.

[EBS_freak]

18 minutes ago, mikel said:

You are still saying Amazon would pull out of Britain if they had to pay tax on their profits in this country. They would not, they wouldn't give up all that revenue. If the government allow big multinationals to do as they wish, at the expense of the local competition, it is tantamount to fraud.

You are right. Why would Amazon pull out of Britain? They are paying the taxes on the profits as defined by the laws set out by the government.

The whole other discussion at this point is completely hypothetical... and I’m not entirely sure how fraud comes into it? Multinationals operate within the boundaries set out by law.

You are also only focusing Amazon - who adhere to the same taxation laws as other companies. A change to those tax laws could crucify those other companies. Are you suggesting we should have a separate tax law just for Amazon - just because we don’t like what they are or aren’t paying?

 

[Dad3353]

This poor dead horse has been soooooo flogged... This is its last in this topic; I shall start culling forthwith any future stuff of the sort. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Dad3353

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

This poor dead horse has been soooooo flogged... This is its last in this topic; I shall start culling forthwith for any future stuff of the sort. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SCARLET-KITTEN-Leather-Flogger-Floggers/dp/B07H967LMH
 

^ on topic

[mep]

Good to hear Dad. I'm fed up of scrolling past posts that are nothing to do with the original topic.

[Dad3353]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SCARLET-KITTEN-Leather-Flogger-Floggers/dp/B07H967LMH
 

^ on topic

Currently unavailable there, but we Mods have our own stocks... 

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Currently unavailable there, but we Mods have our own stocks... 

It’s unavailable because they appear to be in the hands of basschatters that may or may not realise that that the tax rules of the UK aren’t solely written around Amazon!

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Point encapsulated and I should have said part Swedish - my fault.

The part about the vaccine cost not being at cost or the same for all still counts - yes it’s great we have a vaccine, we all want that, but it’s the British flag waving altruistic cost thing where it’s not actually fully british, and it’s not cost for all either I was pointing out

The fact we have a vaccine and it’s being rolled out is good, and let’s hope it continues to go forward and not unravel. Questioning things like decisions to elongate the period between 2 doses is actually valid - why is it done on no/little/partial scientific evidence - could it be because the supply and supply lines isn’t as good as they say, and they are dressing it up differently?

Similarly what if they start mixing the types vaccines for doses - why is that? 
 

Do we accept something is better than nothing - probably yes, should we question these things and not jump for joy with blind optimism - definitely yes

Not going to dispute any of the medical stuff with you matey, you're way more expert than most of us on here!

We're both agreed AZ is a joint UK Swedish venture and for me the Swedes are a wonderful lot and one of the few nations that have hit the 0.7% foreign aid target (in fact the first to do so). They very much regarded the UK as a natural ally when we were part of you know what.

I'm hugely impressed with the price AZ are charging for their vaccine - it is a cause for celebration and I do see it as a genuine act of altruism. No issue with it being a big thumbs up to AZ (and to both the UK and Sweden) for doing this - I don't see many other Western govts encouraging their drug companies to do the same, do you?

Interested why you think it's not being made available at cost to some countries such as SA? Cost will include shipping as we all know, it will also certainly include R&D and manufacturing costs. If SA are paying more per vaccine, I suspect it is merely balancing out these additional factors - remember the UK has poured in a lot to support the R&D effort already and doesn't have the same shipping costs.

PS optimism can be just that; it doesn't have to be blind just because it is optimism.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Please keep us posted if any of you start to get enquiries for outdoor gigs post April 12 when pubs and restaurants can open out doors. Will obviously be very encouraging news to hear.

[mikel]

On 01/02/2021 at 20:37, EBS_freak said:

You are right. Why would Amazon pull out of Britain? They are paying the taxes on the profits as defined by the laws set out by the government.

The whole other discussion at this point is completely hypothetical... and I’m not entirely sure how fraud comes into it? Multinationals operate within the boundaries set out by law.

You are also only focusing Amazon - who adhere to the same taxation laws as other companies. A change to those tax laws could crucify those other companies. Are you suggesting we should have a separate tax law just for Amazon - just because we don’t like what they are or aren’t paying?

 

But they operate within unfair tax laws that low them to undercut local business. Just because governments low them to do this does not make it right, or fair. I am talking fairness not legal minutiae.

[taunton-hobbit]

Old adage - 'nice guys come last' ?

😎

[Dad3353]

13 minutes ago, mikel said:

But they operate within unfair tax laws that low them to undercut local business. Just because governments low them to do this does not make it right, or fair. I am talking fairness not legal minutiae.

The Laws are made by the democratically-elected Government, chosen by The People, who, it would seem, want stuff like this to continue. 

[EBS_freak]

15 minutes ago, mikel said:

But they operate within unfair tax laws that low them to undercut local business. Just because governments low them to do this does not make it right, or fair. I am talking fairness not legal minutiae.

When it comes to the law, there are no fair or unfair tax laws. They are just tax laws. Putting the word fair or unfair in front of the word law is purely subjective. I'm not defending Amazon either way, all I am saying is that they are operating within the boundaries set out by the law.

As outsiders, we can both comment on what we deem to fair or unfair - but at the end of the day, we are all bound by those same rules. 

[PaulWarning]

21 minutes ago, mikel said:

But they operate within unfair tax laws that low them to undercut local business. Just because governments low them to do this does not make it right, or fair. I am talking fairness not legal minutiae.

I'm used to Basschat threads going off topic, indeed I am guilty of it myself, but WTF has this to with gigging in the spring?

Back on topic, we have a potential outdoor gig on 17th April, anybody any idea on whether we can practice before then?

Edited February 22, 2021 by PaulWarning

[Len_derby]

12 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I'm used to Basschat threads going off topic, indeed I am guilty of it myself, but WTF has this to with gigging in the spring?

Back on topic, we have a potential outdoor gig on 17th April, anybody any idea on whether we can practice before then?

If there’s no more than six in the band you can rehearse outdoors! 🙂

[taunton-hobbit]

1 minute ago, Len_derby said:

If there’s no more than six in the band you can rehearse outdoors! 🙂

How are your neighbours ?

😎

 

[PaulWarning]

3 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

If there’s no more than six in the band you can rehearse outdoors! 🙂

no much help I'm afraid Len, one thought, if you're allowed to go to work if you can't work from home, is practicing for paying gigs classed as work?

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

I'm used to Basschat threads going off topic, indeed I am guilty of it myself, but WTF has this to with gigging in the spring?

Back on topic, we have a potential outdoor gig on 17th April, anybody any idea on whether we can practice before then?

Excellent news!! Just had another BC mate say he's just had two bookings in June, which isn't quite by the end of May, but getting close. 

Yours, on the other hand, is very much this side of the end of May! And it's hopefully the first of many such snippets of good news that will serve to encourage everyone. 

[Al Krow]

May 17th: looking at the details apparently venues can have up to 1,000 indoors provided they are no more than at 50% capacity.

No idea whether this will extend to gigs or whether event managers are going to be able to get stuff organised in the next 3 months?

Spring ends on Sunday June 20th this year. These vaccines and the way they have been successfully rolled out have been an amazing blessing - incredibly good news, in fact!

And I hope, between us, there will be a fair bit of live music played by BC'ers this Spring.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Al Krow
Btw anyone seen where I left that bloody Spitfire? I clearly need to head over to the "you know when you're getting old thread"...

[peteb]

23 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

May 17th: looking at the details apparently venues can have up to 1,000 indoors provided they are no more than at 50% capacity.

No idea whether this will extend to gigs or whether event managers are going to be able to get stuff organised in the next 3 months?

Spring ends on Sunday June 20th this year. These vaccines and the way they have been successfully rolled out have been an amazing blessing - incredibly good news, in fact!

And I hope, between us, there will be a fair bit of live music played by BC'ers this Spring.

Try not to get over-excited. Pubs won't be opening properly (i.e. indoors) until 17 May at the earliest, but even then with social distancing in place and no groups of more than six. That will rule out any gig I'm likely to do. Restrictions will be lifted and clubs, etc will open on 21 June (again, at the earliest). We've just had an online chat and reckon that we will probably be getting gigs in the diary around September or so. 

Still, positive news and a bit of hope that things will (hopefully) be getting better reasonably soon... 

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, peteb said:

Try not to get over-excited. Pubs won't be opening properly (i.e. indoors) until 17 May at the earliest, but even then with social distancing in place and no groups of more than six. That will rule out any gig I'm likely to do. Restrictions will be lifted and clubs, etc will open on 21 June (again, at the earliest). We've just had an online chat and reckon that we will probably be getting gigs in the diary around September or so. 

Still, positive news and a bit of hope that things will (hopefully) be getting better reasonably soon... 

And on your part maybe try not to get over-patronising 😉

But this isn't just about you Pete - a lot of us will be getting going well before Sept, fingers crossed!

Edited February 22, 2021 by Al Krow

[peteb]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Whilst it might rule out gigs for you, this isn't just about you Pete. A lot of us will be getting going well before Sept.

And on your part maybe try not to be over-patronising 😉

I'm sure that others will be getting gigs in from June onwards, but not if they play ticketed events in clubs. I'm sure that if I had a pub band rehearsed up then I might be playing a bit before then. 

Who's being patronising? All I'm saying is don't get too carried away and think that everything will be back to normal straight away. 

[Al Krow]

Just now, peteb said:

I'm sure that others will be getting gigs in from June onwards, but not if they play ticketed events in clubs. I'm sure that if I had a pub band rehearsed up then I might be playing a bit before then. 

Who's being patronising? All I'm saying is don't get too carried away and think that everything will be back to normal straight away. 

That's fair Pete. Things will take a long while to get back to normal. In fact what we knew as normal may never completely return and some things change permanently eg less office working / increased working from home, wearing masks on public transport etc. 

But folk are going to be in the mood for one heck of a party come the summer!