Some VERY good news at last - live music back by the Spring?

[Al Krow]

36 minutes ago, mikel said:

Exactly. Still banging on about the war?

Appreciate it's a bit of thread de-rail, but I can't let such a blithe statement go unchallenged.

A simple poem long etched on my mind:

History repeats itself.
Has to.
No-one listens.

Steve Turner

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget" and why many of us have just now observed 2 minutes silence to reflect on things long past.

I guess we will need to disagree on this one.

[Frank Blank]

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

But my missus (who happens to be an NHS doctor) reckons a good way to quickly bring additional resources to the front is to get trainee nurses and student doctors involved in assisting with rolling out the immunisation programme - sounds like a good suggestion to me.

This is already being discussed.

[Dad3353]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Appreciate it's a bit of thread de-rail, but I can't let such a blithe statement go unchallenged.

A simple poem long etched on my mind:

History repeats itself.
Has to.
No-one listens.

Steve Turner

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget" and why many of us have just now observed 2 minutes silence to reflect on things long past.

I guess we will need to disagree on this one.

I think there's a bit of confusion creeping in, here. 'Lest we forget' is one thing, but 'We were 40,000 short' is quite another, and not connected. Remember, and respect, if you will, but equating the victory against all odds in other, different, circumstances doesn't cut it, in my view. The 'WWII' spirit is not useful in present times; a 'present times' spirit might be more appropriate.
Just sayin'. 

[peteb]

56 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Appreciate it's a bit of thread de-rail, but I can't let such a blithe statement go unchallenged.

A simple poem long etched on my mind:

History repeats itself.
Has to.
No-one listens.

Steve Turner

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget" and why many of us have just now observed 2 minutes silence to reflect on things long past.

I guess we will need to disagree on this one.

I would suggest that over the past 20 years or so, we actually have forgotten the reason why we need to have a Remembrance Day in this country. As the actual war is now beyond the memory of anyone not well into their eighties, a now middle-aged generation who have never experienced war have got so caught up in turning it into an exercise of national pride that they have lost an understanding of what caused their ancestors to have to live through such terrible times.

If we are worrying that ‘History repeats itself’ (as we should) then we need to stop ‘banging on about the war’ at every opportunity and start looking at what we can do to make sure that the conditions that led to war are not repeated. Looking at what has happened in America and parts of Europe (especially the UK) recently, I wouldn’t say that we are doing such a great job at the moment.

Edited November 11, 2020 by peteb

[taunton-hobbit]

Sky News -

 if the deputy chief medical officer reckons it's safe enough for his 78-year-old mum, that's a pretty good sign of confidence in the process.

😎

(I'm reminded of John Selwyn Gummer shoving a hamburger at his daughter)

Edited November 11, 2020 by taunton-hobbit

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I think there's a bit of confusion creeping in, here. 'Lest we forget' is one thing, but 'We were 40,000 short' is quite another, and not connected. Remember, and respect, if you will, but equating the victory against all odds in other, different, circumstances doesn't cut it, in my view. The 'WWII' spirit is not useful in present times; a 'present times' spirit might be more appropriate.
Just sayin'. 

Entirely fair!

2 hours ago, peteb said:

If we are worrying that ‘History repeats itself’ (as we should) then we need to stop ‘banging on about the war’ at every opportunity and start looking at what we can do to make sure that the conditions that led to war are not repeated. Looking at what has happened in America and parts of Europe (especially the UK) recently, I wouldn’t say that we are doing such a great job at the moment.

I completely agree with your sentiment, but I don't think anyone was intending to be "banging on about the war" - merely implying that a war-time spirit (irrespective of 1940s technological superiority) could be very helpful in addressing the shortfall in personnel to administer vaccines to get us out of the current massive economic mess that lockdowns create. But @Dad3353's point on the validity of invoking a war time spirit is a very fair one, as I have just acknowledged.

I'm not as pessimistic on this as your last sentence implies: Western Europe including the UK has arguably had its most peaceful 75 years since the Roman Empire. And, counterintuitively, the most divisive US president of recent times has also been the least bellicose in terms of putting US troops in harm's way across the globe.

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

This is already being discussed.

What have you heard on this - sounds good?

Edited November 11, 2020 by Al Krow

[petebassist]

1 hour ago, taunton-hobbit said:

Sky News -

 if the deputy chief medical officer reckons it's safe enough for his 78-year-old mum, that's a pretty good sign of confidence in the process.

😎

(I'm reminded of John Selwyn Gummer shoving a hamburger at his daughter)

Yes get your bass chops sharpened up people, and dust off the gigging gear, we're going back on the road. 😎

[peteb]

41 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I'm not as pessimistic on this as your last sentence implies: Western Europe including the UK has arguably had its most peaceful 80 years since the Roman Empire. And, counterintuitively, the most divisive US president of recent times has also been the least bellicose in terms of putting US troops in harm's way across the globe.

I’m afraid that I don’t share your optimism, these are potentially dark times. However, I should stress that I can’t imagine any way that there would be a conventional war between the major European countries in any of our, or our children’s lifetimes. All of this would need to be covered in a different thread looking at the changing nature of future warfare, proxy wars, growth of nationalism, what might happen if a minor European country was taken over and the consequences of the fall of the Soviet empire.

All of this would make a fascinating thread, but I’m not sure that some people would be comfortable with it being discussed in detail on Basschat! 

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, peteb said:

I’m afraid that I don’t share your optimism, these are potentially dark times. However, I should stress that I can’t imagine any way that there would be a conventional war between the major European countries in any of our, or our children’s lifetimes. All of this would need to be covered in a different thread looking at the changing nature of future warfare, proxy wars, growth of nationalism, what might happen if a minor European country was taken over and the consequences of the fall of the Soviet empire.

All of this would make a fascinating thread, but I’m not sure that some people would be comfortable with it being discussed in detail on Basschat! 

Agreed with your last point. However, the mods (and we have a very lovely one actively involved in this thread, as you will have observed) do seem to be ok with more "in depth" discussions from time to time ; particularly when they are conducted respectfully and don't end up becoming rabid Brexit slanging matches (there, I've said the "B" word - lol!).

PS I corrected my earlier post from 80 to 75 years for obvious reasons  

Edited November 11, 2020 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:50, geoham said:

For example, generic equivalents are popular in India and drug patents are largely ignored. What about the USA, a wealthy country - but many folk unable to afford medical treatment? I'd like to think that Pfizer's management would like to be seen as the company that ended the pandemic, rather than one the profited from it.

Well the new president of the US of A has promised everyone will get the vaccine regardless of medical insurance issues.

But yes, didn't Edward Jenner, inventor of the smallpox vaccine refuse to allow it to be owned, as it belonged to the world.

 

22 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If we, as a species, can come up with a successful RNA vaccine (amazing scientific achievement) it's surely not beyond our abilities to work out how to make sure we get it to folk who need it most urgently?

Unfortunately the scientists are the one coming up with the RNA vaccines. The politicians are the ones distributing it, and have shown a particular skill in a lack of organisation.

Although I am sure one of their friends can turn his christmas card company into a succesful logistics company for a few million.

 

14 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I'd politely suggest, technical superiority or not, we can and should remember, with gratitude, the sacrifice others have made on our part, not least given the day today is. And it's precisely because of their sacrifice most of us in Western Europe have not had to experience anything similar since (thank God).

No, I don't think we remember. We romantisise, we glorify but we don't remember.

We were good at fighting the wars, but following generations haven't got the enthusiasm to fight for the peace.

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget" and why many of us have just now observed 2 minutes silence to reflect on things long past.

Very symbolic. Even amoungst those to whom it means more than sticking a poppy on and being quiet for a couple of minutes once a year so people don't judge them, it doesn't really translate into action to keep the peace does it.

 

[Ricky 4000]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget"

Hear hear. 👍

[MacDaddy]

[taunton-hobbit]

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

I’m afraid that I don’t share your optimism ...

Feel free to start your own 'gloom, doom and other Cassandra predictions' and we'll see how it goes. In 'Off Topic' there are few 'taboo' subjects, as long as normal house rules are respected. Some subjects are well-known fire-raisers, and are not welcome, but, beyond that, vent your spleen if you so desire. If it gets out of hand, it'll get locked, is all. 

[Maude]

22 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Feel free to start your own 'gloom, doom and other Cassandra predictions' and we'll see how it goes. 

Oh God! 

TimR is sharpening his graph plotter as we speak. 

😬     

😁

[peteb]

36 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Feel free to start your own 'gloom, doom and other Cassandra predictions' and we'll see how it goes. In 'Off Topic' there are few 'taboo' subjects, as long as normal house rules are respected. Some subjects are well-known fire-raisers, and are not welcome, but, beyond that, vent your spleen if you so desire. If it gets out of hand, it'll get locked, is all. 

To be honest, I’m not sure that there is much to be gained discussing such a complex subject on a forum of people who play a bass guitar to varying standards. Such a discussion would inevitably talk about Brexit at length, as well as many other contentious issues and anyone wanting to contribute would really need a reasonable understanding of modern European history. It is still a fascinating subject and if anyone is interested then it is worth reading up on.

As far as 'gloom, doom and other Cassandra predictions', people get on with their own lives and make the best of the opportunities that come their way, but we do live in ‘interesting’ times. But we don’t have militias outside the front door, which makes us more fortunate than many other people on this planet. Who knows, maybe events in America last week will be the start of a fightback against the forces of darkness (or maybe not – who knows right now)!

If I remember correctly, this thread derail started when someone used an inappropriate ‘during the war’ comment when talking about dealing with a worldwide pandemic…

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, peteb said:

If I remember correctly, this thread derail started when someone used an inappropriate ‘during the war’ comment when talking about dealing with a worldwide pandemic…

I beg to differ.

If you actually read back it was responding to a point about shortage of personnel which has occurred at crisis points in the life of this nation before, and 2020 and 1940 are/were both crisis years for the citizens of GB.

You then made a song and dance about technological superiority of equipment and planes, which really was entirely irrelevant to this thread, but I took the bait when you tried to imply that a shortage of personnel = romanticising war! (Tbf however, if you can't remember correctly what we said yesterday I take your point about not being able to remember events from 80 years ago) 😁

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Al Krow

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I beg to differ.

If you actually read back it was responding to a point about shortage of personnel which has occurred at crisis points in the life of this nation before, and 2020 and 1940 are/were both crisis years for the citizens of GB.

You then made a song and dance about technological superiority of equipment and planes, which really was entirely irrelevant to this thread, but I took the bait when you tried to imply that a shortage of personnel = romanticising war! 😁

I think that the point that I (and later others) were making is that the situations in 2020 and 1940 were not comparable and that invoking the Battle of Britain was not helpful. 

[Al Krow]

Just now, peteb said:

I think that the point that I (and later others) were making is that the situations in 2020 and 1940 were not comparable and that invoking the Battle of Britain was not helpful. 

Nope - your point was about romanticising war, which was quite a leap! Or did I read that completely incorrectly?

Others made the point that the parallel could be considered unhelpful , which is a fair point (albeit one I disagree with). 

[Woodinblack]

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

... a forum of people who play a bass guitar to varying standards.

How very dare you bring up standards!

 

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

If you actually read back it was responding to a point about shortage of personnel which has occurred at crisis points in the life of this nation before, and 2020 and 1940 are/were both crisis years for the citizens of GB.

But not in any way comparable.

And even as someone as negative as I am on the B word, even I hope we haven't inflicted the same damage on ourselves as we did then, because back then we had people to help us.

[mikel]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Appreciate it's a bit of thread de-rail, but I can't let such a blithe statement go unchallenged.

A simple poem long etched on my mind:

History repeats itself.
Has to.
No-one listens.

Steve Turner

There's a reason today is Remembrance Day,  "Lest we Forget" and why many of us have just now observed 2 minutes silence to reflect on things long past.

I guess we will need to disagree on this one.

You can remember something, in its context, without using it as a tenuous analogy for today's situation. Sadly we Brits have a reputation for using it with depressing regularity. Almost every country in the World was involved to some extent in WW 2, most tend not to drag it up every time they have a national problem.

[Al Krow]

Lol! There is clearly one conclusion from all of this. Whatever you do...

 

[Frank Blank]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Lol! There is clearly one conclusion from all of this. Whatever you do...

 

Ah, in that case I'll have two eggs mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Herman Goering, and four Colditz salads please.

[mcnach]

On 09/11/2020 at 17:34, Al Krow said:

At least our govt have managed to get hold of enough vaccines for millions of us, which (I understand) unfortunately can't be said for 27 of our immediate neighbours; so we're defo on the right side of the Channel for once.

Sometimes you really crack me up 😄

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

Sometimes you really crack me up 😄

Excellent! Always good to bring a smile a fellow BC'er's face particularly on such a wet and dreary lockdown Saturday 😊