Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

Equipment for writing some songs

wishface

By wishface,
in Recording

 Share

Recommended Posts

Dad3353 Grand Master

Dad3353

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wishface said:

One question: what folder do i put VST instruments in? Some install by themselves others do not

THanks

 

It doesn't matter, as long as Reaper is informed where they are (there's a section in 'Options/Preferences' for just that...). I like to manage where they go, so I've a folder each in 'Program Files' for VST plug-ins and 64-bit Vst plug-ins, on one of my USB drives. The 'default' Steinberg folder on the 'C' drive is fine, too; just list any and all such folders in the Reaper preferences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wishface Collaborator

wishface

Posted
  • Author
Posted

As I wait for Amazon to deliver a midi controller keyboard I hope won't be too difficult to use, I'd like to say thanks to peeps for responding in this thread. Reaper is pretty daunting and it's not free (it's always a shame IMO that stuff like this can't be more widely available as there's probably a lot of budding musicians out there), but it's fun to get back into trying to make some music again. Thanks very much.

Now all I have to do is learn to play jazz keyboards

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dad3353 Grand Master

Dad3353

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, wishface said:

... and it's not free...

It's free to try out, with no restrictions, for as long as you need, and priced very low ($60..?) once you're sure it's a 'keeper'. There are free DAWs, too, but they all seem 'daunting' at first.

Edited by Dad3353
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, wishface said:

As I wait for Amazon to deliver a midi controller keyboard I hope won't be too difficult to use, I'd like to say thanks to peeps for responding in this thread. Reaper is pretty daunting and it's not free (it's always a shame IMO that stuff like this can't be more widely available as there's probably a lot of budding musicians out there), but it's fun to get back into trying to make some music again. Thanks very much.

Getting into recording has never been easier of cheaper, than it is right now, and it's only going to get easier and cheaper.

Anyone with a computer (and if the you the right ones a smart phone or a tablet) can run free (or very cheap) software that will emulate a far more fully featured recording studio than those used to make most of the "classic" recordings of the last 70 years. When my first band went into the studio in 1980 to record our first vinyl release, one day cost us £50 for the studio hire and the stereo master tapes. This was for recording onto a 4-track tape recorder and mixing to stereo via what appeared to be mostly repurposed PA equipment (mics and desk). The only effect available was tape echo (from an actual tape recorder). That was it. In those days home recording was mostly for the rich and famous, and even the humble 4-track cassette portastudio cost almost £1k.

The only downside I see to the modern way of home recording is that you are straight in at the deep end with a steep learning curve ahead of you. No years of recording live in mono or stereo while you save up for a 4-track and 8 (or more) track system, learning bit by bit as more feature become available as you can afford the equipment that has them. 

Also remember that just because you might be a decent musician and/or songwriter doesn't mean that you also be a decent recording engineer. I learnt that the hard and expensive way.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wishface Collaborator

wishface

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Getting into recording has never been easier of cheaper, than it is right now, and it's only going to get easier and cheaper.

Anyone with a computer (and if the you the right ones a smart phone or a tablet) can run free (or very cheap) software that will emulate a far more fully featured recording studio than those used to make most of the "classic" recordings of the last 70 years. When my first band went into the studio in 1980 to record our first vinyl release, one day cost us £50 for the studio hire and the stereo master tapes. This was for recording onto a 4-track tape recorder and mixing to stereo via what appeared to be mostly repurposed PA equipment (mics and desk). The only effect available was tape echo (from an actual tape recorder). That was it. In those days home recording was mostly for the rich and famous, and even the humble 4-track cassette portastudio cost almost £1k.

The only downside I see to the modern way of home recording is that you are straight in at the deep end with a steep learning curve ahead of you. No years of recording live in mono or stereo while you save up for a 4-track and 8 (or more) track system, learning bit by bit as more feature become available as you can afford the equipment that has them. 

Also remember that just because you might be a decent musician and/or songwriter doesn't mean that you also be a decent recording engineer. I learnt that the hard and expensive way.

 

Sure, but I guess it depends on what you want to compose

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

Posted
Posted

So what (and how) do you want to compose?

I've always found that the act of composing and the act of recording were two entirely different things and approached in entirely different ways.

For me composing is done in my head or when I'm playing an instrument. Even in the days when I was playing in bands that used a lot of technology to produce their sounds, the recording equipment didn't get a look in during the compositional process. If I'm writing for my band, I just need to present the others with a basic idea of the main musical themes, and then we'll deconstruct it and flesh out the missing bits in rehearsal. Recording happens when we are ready to capture a definitive version of the song for consumption by the general public.

When I've been writing on my own without a band or musical collaborators, I'll have the song almost completely mapped out in my head in both structure and arrangement before committing anything to tape or hard disk.

I think the only time I've used the recording process as the composition was for one of the Composition Challenges on here where I wanted to use the inspirational picture as audio data, and therefore I had no idea how the composition was going to develop until I actually had produced the sounds themselves, and even then I went through most of the import options in Audacity until the data produced some audio that I thought I could work with. However it was more of an intellectual process rather than an inspirational one. 

If you are going to use the recording process as a compositional aid, the most important thing to remember is not to commit to anything in terms of structure or arrangement just because it has already been recorded. Instruments put down early in the compositional process will almost always need to be replaced as the track develops, because by the time you've got the main melody components recorded, you'll be able to hear better versions of them. Don't keep parts recorded early in the compositional process just because they've been "done" already when you can hear a much better version now that the music is more developed.

Good luck!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wishface Collaborator

wishface

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

So what (and how) do you want to compose?

I've always found that the act of composing and the act of recording were two entirely different things and approached in entirely different ways.

For me composing is done in my head or when I'm playing an instrument. Even in the days when I was playing in bands that used a lot of technology to produce their sounds, the recording equipment didn't get a look in during the compositional process. If I'm writing for my band, I just need to present the others with a basic idea of the main musical themes, and then we'll deconstruct it and flesh out the missing bits in rehearsal. Recording happens when we are ready to capture a definitive version of the song for consumption by the general public.

When I've been writing on my own without a band or musical collaborators, I'll have the song almost completely mapped out in my head in both structure and arrangement before committing anything to tape or hard disk.

I think the only time I've used the recording process as the composition was for one of the Composition Challenges on here where I wanted to use the inspirational picture as audio data, and therefore I had no idea how the composition was going to develop until I actually had produced the sounds themselves, and even then I went through most of the import options in Audacity until the data produced some audio that I thought I could work with. However it was more of an intellectual process rather than an inspirational one. 

If you are going to use the recording process as a compositional aid, the most important thing to remember is not to commit to anything in terms of structure or arrangement just because it has already been recorded. Instruments put down early in the compositional process will almost always need to be replaced as the track develops, because by the time you've got the main melody components recorded, you'll be able to hear better versions of them. Don't keep parts recorded early in the compositional process just because they've been "done" already when you can hear a much better version now that the music is more developed.

Good luck!

There are no easy answers to those questions. I want to compose music I enjoy. Probably more rhythm based and perhaps more ambient. Im a huge prog rock fan but I don't think i'm up to writing the next Close to the Edge on my own in my bedroom!

The stuff I've written before (years ago) was very limited due to not even having a keyboard to work with and so it became more abient based, which is fin since I also like ambient music. I've been listening to some bjork recently and I really like the soundscapes she works with, they are very quirky, heavily produced but compositionally simple, and very accessible. 

The problem I've always had when writing tunes is that I can come up with a basic idea but composing that out into a full piece is very difficult. I woudl love to be able to write pieces as complex as Zappa but that's a loooooooooong way off in the future (if ever!). So it's a case of coming up with riffs or ideas and gluing them together and hoping they fit organically. But when you listen to 'proper' composes, people that understand what they are doing, you hear ideas develop and expand throughout the piece. For rock musicians it's often just gluing riffs from each band member together, or jamming a bunch of ideas.

So far much of what I've found, in terms of free vst content, is kinda limited. It's cool people make free stuff but most of it seems to be various analog synth patches all of which are very obvious sounding and a bit hokey.  II'd like something more subtle to work with, more atmospheric. I'm not into sound synthesis or spending hours programming a synth. That's not for me at all really. I found a load of great ENS files, but that requires Reaktor it seems. I guess the best stuff (YMMV) is inevitably going to cost money. That's fine but I dont have two hundred quid for a piece of software unfortunately.

There are some patches out there, i found a good hang drum pad. But some of the ethnic vst patches are...not good. You can always tell when you hear somethng like an Oud played on a keyboard :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dad3353 Grand Master

Dad3353

Posted
Posted (edited)

Download and install the Reaktor PLayer, it's free. Use that, through Reaper, to listen to the .ens files you have. When you're happy with what you're hearing, render the track to audio. From that point on, you won't need Reaktor for that track. Rinse and repeat.
30 minutes, continuous, should be easily enough to decide if the sounds are what you are looking for. I've just tried out a few (Kontour, Polyplex, Monark, The Finger and more...); if you can't find decent sounds in there, take up crochet.
I have maybe a thousand or so Vst synths, mostly free ones, and many have great sounds. One needs patience and a bit of effort to find the right ones, and having a big budget is far from the only criteria (I'm retired; my budget is very slim indeed...). Reaktor 'Spark', for instance, costs 49€ or so, and has a bunch of excellent presets, none of which are 'cheezy'.
As for wanting to compose high-flying stuff, I'd advise starting off modestly and building up over time. No-one comes up with 'Zappa' lines, or prog opera straight off. Get something simple done, then do another, and another. It needn't take decades, but it won't take minutes.
Izotope were offering the Iris 2 for free the other day; similar offers come up regularly. 

Here the Viking, for free... VK-1 ...

... and here, Cobalt ...

Edited by Dad3353
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wishface Collaborator

wishface

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Download and install the Reaktor PLayer, it's free. Use that, through Reaper, to listen to the .ens files you have. When you're happy with what you're hearing, render the track to audio. From that point on, you won't need Reaktor for that track. Rinse and repeat.
30 minutes, continuous, should be easily enough to decide if the sounds are what you are looking for. I've just tried out a few (Kontour, Polyplex, Monark, The Finger and more...); if you can't find decent sounds in there, take up crochet.
I have maybe a thousand or so Vst synths, mostly free ones, and many have great sounds. One needs patience and a bit of effort to find the right ones, and having a big budget is far from the only criteria (I'm retired; my budget is very slim indeed...). Reaktor 'Spark', for instance, costs 49€ or so, and has a bunch of excellent presets, none of which are 'cheezy'.
As for wanting to compose high-flying stuff, I'd advise starting off modestly and building up over time. No-one comes up with 'Zappa' lines, or prog opera straight off. Get something simple done, then do another, and another. It needn't take decades, but it won't take minutes.
Izotope were offering the Iris 2 for free the other day; similar offers come up regularly. 

Here the Viking, for free... VK-1 ...

... and here, Cobalt ...

Thanks I did already download those. I think I have enough old school analog synths right now.  :D 

There doesnt seem any shortage of such things. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lurksalot Grand Master

lurksalot

Posted
Posted

I’ll be honest here and suggest exactly as @BigRedX .

keep it as simple as you can , get some ideas first , make written notes , build a framework for the composition , the minutaii of the recording software should be way down the list of issues at the start.

once you have an idea roughly formulated you can start to flesh them out with sounds, and the chances are that you will find you can play with how they work together later in the process .

but break the process down into chunks that you can get your head around , do it but by bit and find a quick way of remembering the creative bits you want.

BRX can do it in his head as he has years of experience doing it , I write notes and voice msgs on my phone . 
 

if you start by trying to see the whole picture and finished article done, (and all by yourself) it will possibly become overwhelming and demotivating .

I have downloaded a fair few VSTs , Kontact and the like , but if I don’t use them in a couple of months , it is a total PITA trying to remember how to use it again :facepalm:

it works differently for some , but that’s my take on it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wishface Collaborator

wishface

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, lurksalot said:

I’ll be honest here and suggest exactly as @BigRedX .

keep it as simple as you can , get some ideas first , make written notes , build a framework for the composition , the minutaii of the recording software should be way down the list of issues at the start.

once you have an idea roughly formulated you can start to flesh them out with sounds, and the chances are that you will find you can play with how they work together later in the process .

but break the process down into chunks that you can get your head around , do it but by bit and find a quick way of remembering the creative bits you want.

BRX can do it in his head as he has years of experience doing it , I write notes and voice msgs on my phone . 
 

if you start by trying to see the whole picture and finished article done, (and all by yourself) it will possibly become overwhelming and demotivating .

I have downloaded a fair few VSTs , Kontact and the like , but if I don’t use them in a couple of months , it is a total PITA trying to remember how to use it again :facepalm:

it works differently for some , but that’s my take on it.

 

Thanks, there's nothing wrong with simple music at all. Zappa is just one musician I like and if everything music was all like that it would be very boring. I like all kinds of stuff from Tangerine Dream early eighties synth stuff to Dream Theater to the Iron Maiden to the Aphex Twin. That's not to show off :d because I think most people are like this today, but it  does make collating a variety of influences into a coherent expression quite difficult. I ike anbalog synth music, like Synthwave stuff (a guilty pleasure), but I don't just want to do that,.. If i ever get to writ music as complex as zappa it would be very rewarding I think  intellectually, whether i'll ever be capable is another matter entirely. I mentioned Bjork because she manages to be simple music (relatively speaking) but it's also quirky and accessible. But that's just one example. Just imagine that but wiht Chris Squire bass licks. Heaven!

It's not just a question of gluing bits together. I'm going to have (so to speak) to learn all the weird tricks electronic musicians use to lecture transitions: all the tricks you can do with this software i've never learned. Programming filter sweeps, pitch bends, modulation etc. All the quirky sound effects that disguise the fact your song is just a sequencer loop running round and round (hello Tangerine Dream)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lurksalot Grand Master

lurksalot

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, wishface said:

Thanks, there's nothing wrong with simple music at all. Zappa is just one musician I like and if everything music was all like that it would be very boring. I like all kinds of stuff from Tangerine Dream early eighties synth stuff to Dream Theater to the Iron Maiden to the Aphex Twin. That's not to show off :d because I think most people are like this today, but it  does make collating a variety of influences into a coherent expression quite difficult. I ike anbalog synth music, like Synthwave stuff (a guilty pleasure), but I don't just want to do that,.. If i ever get to writ music as complex as zappa it would be very rewarding I think  intellectually, whether i'll ever be capable is another matter entirely. I mentioned Bjork because she manages to be simple music (relatively speaking) but it's also quirky and accessible. But that's just one example. Just imagine that but wiht Chris Squire bass licks. Heaven!

It's not just a question of gluing bits together. I'm going to have (so to speak) to learn all the weird tricks electronic musicians use to lecture transitions: all the tricks you can do with this software i've never learned. Programming filter sweeps, pitch bends, modulation etc. All the quirky sound effects that disguise the fact your song is just a sequencer loop running round and round (hello Tangerine Dream)

 

 

I am not stating that your music should be simple at all.

what I am saying is that your approach should start in manageable chunks.

make your music as intricate as you desire, but keep the process realistic.

that said, creativity as inspiration strikes us all differently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...