Finished! It's a bass, Jim...

[Andyjr1515]

So clamps off and all looks OK:

The chamber will be deepened, cutting through the maple veneer you see here.

And some time on the router gets the sides ready for final clean up with cabinet scrapers before I round-over the edges:

 

[Matt P]

Lovely work,

Watching these builds has taken on a whole new level of excitement! 

[Andyjr1515]

Final two steps before tomorrow's 'Chambers for the Superquads' (just you watch - Marvel will nobble that title  .  Expect a film on Disney+ before spring) marathon, a couple of jobs while the router table was out:

Control chamber to final depth

 and initial back rounding:

Initial top rounding:

So tomorrow's job will be:

- decide on the final positioning of the bridge elements, the fretboard and the pickups

- create the three chambers for the Superquads.  For this, I will be using the same method outlined for the neck pocket in the Wal save thread half way down Page 7 here:

A Very Special Save - Page 7 - Build Diaries - Basschat

Thanks for looking

 

 

 

 

 

[BassTool]

For a guy who 'hates routers' you really can do a cracking job with one 🤭 this is going to be one very special bass IMO 👌🏼

And to have two amazing threads running side by side on here is really top notch work @Andyjr1515

Brilliant 👍🏼

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by BassTool

[Andyjr1515]

Thanks for the kind comments, folks.  I still hate routers, but, as I've said before, there are times when only a router will do! 

And here we go again!

The pickup chambers.  I use the same method - which is basically mark out, hog out, chisel out and then use a captive bearing router bit to tidy it up and reach the final depth.  

With pickup chambers, the first thing I do is check the radius of the corners and use a bradpoint 1mm larger (to allow for the 0.5mm clearance all round) and drill the corners:

Then I hog out as close to the marked line as I can with as large a Forstner as I can:

Then chisel 10mm or so down, right up to the outline:

Then use a flush bearing router bit, that will be fully captive to deepen the chamber to final depth:

Finally, I chisel out the room for the pickup bottom connector block that will join up with the connector cable slots I created before gluing the back on.  Those original slots weren't in quite the right places but they are only there to get the cables through so will still work fine:

And once the connector blocks now have their chambers, the pickups will freely drop - if needs be - to the lowest practical position:

 

And, with that done, I can start thinking about gluing on the fretboard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Simon.]

This is such a bonkers build - I really love it.

I guess this is more a question for Sims, rather than Andy, but it did occur to me, after watching the video of the Sims pickup demo, is why not have 4-way toggle switches on the pickups, rather than a 3-way + an extra on/off switch? Would save a bit of real estate.

[Si600]

27 minutes ago, Simon. said:

This is such a bonkers build - I really love it.

I guess this is more a question for Sims, rather than Andy, but it did occur to me, after watching the video of the Sims pickup demo, is why not have 4-way toggle switches on the pickups, rather than a 3-way + an extra on/off switch? Would save a bit of real estate.

I suppose if you have a four way switch then you have to remember which notch is the sound you like, especially with more than one of them. An extra off switch means than set and forget?

Though how many people are mad enough to have three of them?

[Andyjr1515]

24 minutes ago, Simon. said:

This is such a bonkers build - I really love it.

I guess this is more a question for Sims, rather than Andy, but it did occur to me, after watching the video of the Sims pickup demo, is why not have 4-way toggle switches on the pickups, rather than a 3-way + an extra on/off switch? Would save a bit of real estate.

I suspect most folks (who would generally have just two pickups) would wire the pickups up to a blend or a three-way switch.  That only starts getting really complicated when you add the third pickup (and remember - we think this is the first 3 Superquad bass in the world ), where toggle on-off switches are actually much easier to not get confused...but there aren't really many other situations where a toggle arrangement is tangibly better than the more conventional blend/3-way options.

[Hellzero]

Why not put 3 volumes (and a master tone) instead of the 3 on/off switches ? This would be much more easier to balance the pickups different outputs when they will be in an odd configuration...

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

Why not put 3 volumes (and a master tone) instead of the 3 on/off switches ? This would be much more easier to balance the pickups different outputs when they will be in an odd configuration...

@Jus Lukin 's preference is to use on/off switches. 

That said, if I was doing one for myself, to be honest, I would do the same.  For me, it would be too darn difficult to replicate sounds of the 120 or so combinations of switch positions if I had three fully variable controls on top of the toggles 

[Jus Lukin]

2 hours ago, Simon. said:

This is such a bonkers build - I really love it.

I guess this is more a question for Sims, rather than Andy, but it did occur to me, after watching the video of the Sims pickup demo, is why not have 4-way toggle switches on the pickups, rather than a 3-way + an extra on/off switch? Would save a bit of real estate.

That is a good point- adding an 'off' option to the coil switching would suit me very well! As Andy says, not a lot of use to normal folks though! 😄

57 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Why not put 3 volumes (and a master tone) instead of the 3 on/off switches ? This would be much more easier to balance the pickups different outputs when they will be in an odd configuration...

That's even more of a personal thing, really. I've never particularly got on with passive pickup blending, and usually set my pickup heights so that the volumes are already as balanced as possible. Add to that the fact that I can be a bit of an absent minded knob twiddler on the bass, it's just easier to have switchable sounds and the one master volume. If it wasn't occasionally useful to be able to play at a reduced volume, I'd just have a master on/off, as that is mostly how I use the volume knob!

[Oopsdabassist]

I'm with you on that, I absolutely HATED having a Jazz with 2 volumes, if I had kept it long enough a Kiogon loom with vol and blend would have been a must have!!

[Maude]

This is looking fabulous. 🙂👍

Sorry to derail slightly, but it is about the Super Quads. The way I picture the pickups internally is like the two parts of a P pickup inline, then another one beside it, so four sections of two pole pickups in a 2x2 grid (four string bass). 

Let's number them 1,2,3&4 in order as you would read a book. So a J pickup would be 1&3 or 2&4, a P 2&3 and a MM all 4 on. 

If this is how it's done why is there no option for reverse P (1&4) and neck and bridge J (2&4) and (1&3) in one single pickup? 

Or is that just too confusing in a single unit? 

The two J's probably aren't worth it as they are so close together, but the reverse P might be useful. 

[Si600]

If I've read the Bartolini website correctly, and yes, I'm aware we're talking about a different brand, their Quad Coils will do just that.

However, you need "special wiring" to make them do 1&4, which doesn't seem to be available!

[Jus Lukin]

They're actually the SIMS Super-Quads, the coil arrangement is animated here... https://www.sims.guitars/pickups/super-quad (which I think is exactly as @Maude described).

Regarding the switching, further options might be possible- I'm sure Mr Sims could let you know!

@Sims

[Maude]

The animation doesn't appear to be there, but it does say the site's undergoing maintenance so that might be why. 

I'd guess they've gone for just the three pickup styles as a balance of useable tones and simplicity. The two J's and two P's probably don't sound different enough to warrant the extra confusion in the configuration. 

With 'just' the J, P & MM on each pickup this bass is going to be mad enough without more choices. 

🙂

[Andyjr1515]

56 minutes ago, Maude said:

This is looking fabulous. 🙂👍

Sorry to derail slightly, but it is about the Super Quads. The way I picture the pickups internally is like the two parts of a P pickup inline, then another one beside it, so four sections of two pole pickups in a 2x2 grid (four string bass). 

Let's number them 1,2,3&4 in order as you would read a book. So a J pickup would be 1&3 or 2&4, a P 2&3 and a MM all 4 on. 

If this is how it's done why is there no option for reverse P (1&4) and neck and bridge J (2&4) and (1&3) in one single pickup? 

Or is that just too confusing in a single unit? 

The two J's probably aren't worth it as they are so close together, but the reverse P might be useful. 

I'll show you the back of one of them in the morning.  Yes - it's four coils, two rows of two.

[Jus Lukin]

Let's see if this works...

(It doesn't, but I was able to download it as individual pictures!)

[Andyjr1515]

This is what the back looks like @Maude

You can clearly see the four coils. 

The switching isn't overly rocket science other than getting the magnet orientation and phasing correct to get the 3 way switch to get those combinations.  However, there is a touch of great cleverness in the shape of some tiny resistors on the switch PCB because the one thing these pickups do that most split-coil arrangements (much more common on guitars than basses) can't do, is achieve pretty much equal volume between the 4-coil humbucking option and the 'single coil' (actually two coils) options.  In a guitar you generally get a major volume drop when you switch to single coil on a single pickup. 

These don't - you can play on one pickup and switch between the three options and the volumes are unaffected.  Very clever - and exceptionally useful in a live setting.

There's discussion on, and a demo of, that at the back end of the Bassbash video on P1 of this thread. 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Maude]

The volume equalisation is a really good feature. I've got basses that are coil tapped and there is indeed a volume jump from single coil to humbucker, and again from parallel humbucker to series humbucker.

The Hofner I'm doing at the mo will have two mini humbuckers coil tapped in this way, and then a push/pull volume to put both pickups in series or parallel with each other, so my volumes will be all over the place I reckon. 

 

Three of those Sims pickups is going to be mad. 😁👍

[Andyjr1515]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

Three of those Sims pickups is going to be mad

Mad doesn't even begin to describe it 

[Jus Lukin]

We prefer criminally insane, if you don't mind.

And I thought you lot were PC...

[Richard R]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

However, there is a touch of great cleverness in the shape of some tiny resistors on the switch PCB

The sign of great cleverness is often the simplicity of the solution to  a tricky problem. I'm prepared to bet a lot of thought and testing went into the selection and wiring of those tiny resistors.

[BigRedX]

14 hours ago, Richard R said:

The sign of great cleverness is often the simplicity of the solution to  a tricky problem. I'm prepared to bet a lot of thought and testing went into the selection and wiring of those tiny resistors.

IIRC the original version of these pickups as fitted to the early Enfield basses worked in conjunction with a special pre-amp in order to match the output of the different coil configurations. Under those circumstances an instrument with three of these pickups wouldn't be possible.

[NickA]

On 12/01/2021 at 16:11, Andyjr1515 said:

I still hate routers

Read a great article by two blokes who built a double bass with a fully carved maple back (https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/328014-making-a-double-bass/).  Initially they didn't want to use a router, but then realised that even Stradivarius had a router ... called the junior apprentice (apprentissimo). 

"Take this chisel laddie .... see that 4x 2ft piece of wood over there"