Recording with amp DI - Signal too quiet.

[Ramsay777]

So I've been trying to get into a bit of recording as I've had a Focusrite Scarlett Solo lying around since ages...

Musicman Sterling > Basic Pedal Board > Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12.2 > Scarlett Solo > Reaper DAW

I'm finding my signal is way too quiet and I'm sure I'm doing something stupid, I've got an XLR from the DI out on the rear of my amp, connecting to Input 1 (figured that kind of makes sense, XLR - XLR?)

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers folks

 

 

[Acebassmusic]

Have you checked the DI output from the Shuttlemax is set to line level?

[Ramsay777]

57 minutes ago, Acebassmusic said:

Have you checked the DI output from the Shuttlemax is set to line level?

I'm set to "mic" level on the DI as i'm currently into the mic input on the Scarlett, tried it on "line" one time and it didn't like it haha

Just thinking though, I could set it on "line" and get and XLR - Jack cable to plug into Input two, also set on "line"?

[jrixn1]

3 hours ago, Ramsay777 said:

Musicman Sterling > Basic Pedal Board > Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12.2 > Scarlett Solo > Reaper DAW

To narrow down where the issue is, I would first try plugging the bass directly into the Shuttle, with the DI on "pre EQ" and "mic level".  Start with the Scarlett gain on zero, then start playing the bass, increasing the Scarlett gain until it gets a good signal (the light turns from green to orange).  Did that work?

 

[TwoTimesBass]

4 hours ago, Ramsay777 said:

Just thinking though, I could set it on "line" and get and XLR - Jack cable to plug into Input two, also set on "line"?

That would be my choice, running at line level is better from a signal/noise ratio as you're not reducing the level from the Shuttle to then make up the gain again on the Scarlett.

[Sibob]

Just out of curiosity, what are you hoping to achieve with the Shuttle that you couldn’t achieve by plugging your bass directly into your Scarlett, then EQ’ing in the DAW?

Si

[Ramsay777]

20 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

To narrow down where the issue is, I would first try plugging the bass directly into the Shuttle, with the DI on "pre EQ" and "mic level".  Start with the Scarlett gain on zero, then start playing the bass, increasing the Scarlett gain until it gets a good signal (the light turns from green to orange).  Did that work?

 

Yeah it's just the same, so I think it could be to do with the input im using...

18 hours ago, TwoTimesBass said:

That would be my choice, running at line level is better from a signal/noise ratio as you're not reducing the level from the Shuttle to then make up the gain again on the Scarlett.

Just ordered an adapter that will let me plug into that side so we'll see!

2 hours ago, Sibob said:

Just out of curiosity, what are you hoping to achieve with the Shuttle that you couldn’t achieve by plugging your bass directly into your Scarlett, then EQ’ing in the DAW?

Si

To be honest Si, I never really thought to even try it like that- just figured that I use this amp for gigging and practicing so thought it'd make sense to use it for this too, am I taking the long way around?

Not to mention, my PC has seen far better days haha, crashes every so often as it is, I'm not sure it'd handle me throwing in plugins etc

[Beedster]

Plug your bass straight in mate 

[Beedster]

On 23/11/2020 at 19:22, Ramsay777 said:

I'm set to "mic" level on the DI as i'm currently into the mic input on the Scarlett, tried it on "line" one time and it didn't like it haha

Just thinking though, I could set it on "line" and get and XLR - Jack cable to plug into Input two, also set on "line"?

If you mean mic output level on the DI, it will be too low 

[Sibob]

19 hours ago, Ramsay777 said:

To be honest Si, I never really thought to even try it like that- just figured that I use this amp for gigging and practicing so thought it'd make sense to use it for this too, am I taking the long way around?

Not to mention, my PC has seen far better days haha, crashes every so often as it is, I'm not sure it'd handle me throwing in plugins etc

I would suggest that you're taking the long-way round yes haha. Your amp, in this context, is purely an EQ. As such, along with the fact you're not mic'ing up a cab (really the only reason, in my mind, why you'd use a live amp to record), you may as well go direct. And if your PC is unable to run an EQ plugin (i'm not talking some crazy amp sim), then you have bigger problems haha.

Si

Edited November 25, 2020 by Sibob

[Ramsay777]

3 hours ago, Sibob said:

I would suggest that you're taking the long-way round yes haha. Your amp, in this context, is purely an EQ. As such, along with the fact you're not mic'ing up a cab (really the only reason, in my mind, why you'd use a live amp to record), you may as well go direct. And if you're PC is unable to run an EQ plugin (i'm not talking some crazy amp sim), then you have bigger problems haha.

Si

So I plugged straight in and like you say, I'm gaining pretty much nothing by using my amp in the way that I am. Recording fine but sounding a bit lifeless, time to look at some plug-ins. Been considering the HX Stomp which might be a good solution for me with the amp and cab sims.

Thanks for the pointers folks

[Sibob]

26 minutes ago, Ramsay777 said:

So I plugged straight in and like you say, I'm gaining pretty much nothing by using my amp in the way that I am. Recording fine but sounding a bit lifeless, time to look at some plug-ins. Been considering the HX Stomp which might be a good solution for me with the amp and cab sims.

Thanks for the pointers folks

Maybe, but similarly, Cab sims in my mind are essentially just EQ presets based on some 'classic sounds'. 
I don't know where you are in the mix process, if it's just your bass you're recording, or whole songs etc. But some light compression and some EQ'ing to the tracks taste is usually enough to get a bass sitting nice in a mix.

Si

Edited November 25, 2020 by Sibob

[DaytonaRik]

On 25/11/2020 at 13:42, Sibob said:

Maybe, but similarly, Cab sims in my mind are essentially just EQ presets based on some 'classic sounds'. 
I don't know where you are in the mix process, if it's just your bass you're recording, or whole songs etc. But some light compression and some EQ'ing to the tracks taste is usually enough to get a bass sitting nice in a mix.

Si

Sort of - but in a much more complicated way.  With an IR, the response of the entire signal chain - preamp, mic, speaker and cabinet - is recorded and that resultant response curve is applied to the amp tone...be that a physical head or the output from a plugin.  So yes, an EQ but far from a simple preset.  The IR includes the subtle characteristics of different mics, rooms, even minor differences in the same brand/model of speaker.

Edited November 30, 2020 by DaytonaRik

[skankdelvar]

 If you're after a bog simple, free bass amp sim to liven up your DI'd sound then the TSE BOD v3 is a good place to start

https://www.tseaudio.com/software/tseBOD

[adamg67]

Impulse Responses aren't just EQ presets, they represent the response of a piece of gear over time. I mostly understand it, although I still need to learn about how convolution works, but there's plenty of info out there, just google something like "what's the difference between IR and EQ".

The end result is that an IR gives you a lot more than an EQ preset will. I've got an IR loader pedal and an IR plugin (which also lets you mix IRs, which is cool) that I use for bass cab sims and you could use that on it's own for tones that will sound like a real rig. My baby DI rig just has the IR loader + Darkglass harmonic booster (+ compression and tuner), no preamp pedal at all, and it sounds really good, probably better than my markbass multiamp. And I can set the IRs up in my DAW with the IR plugin (which also lets me mix IRs), then load them on to the pedal when I'm happy with them and they still sound the same. It's the best thing I've heard after a few years trying to find a good flyrig style setup (and it's tiny).

Also, having been down the road of having plugins for recording and separate gear for live / rehearsal / jam, you are doubling the amount of stuff you are dealing with. I've gone back, well, sort of back and the forward in a different direction now, and I use outboard gear for recording again but set up so I can change things after I've recorded (i just reamp everything). That way I'm always dealing with the same gear to get my tone. It does make things more complicated though, but I dont' mind that. Assuming your Shuttlemax is doing something for your tone, I don't think wanting to DI that and use it when recording is a bad idea.

I think what I'm trying to say is be careful of going down the rabbit hole of finding a load of plugins to replicate what you already have, and remember that whatever tone you get with the plugins you can't take it with you on a gig (well, unless youwant an ipad or latptop on stage yet, I'm not quite there yet although I do have an iRig).

 

[Ramirez]

Mic level XLR out into the mic in on the Scarlett is fine. Then use the gain control on the Scarlett to bring the signal to a suitable level- that’s the whole point of a gain control.

You should look at getting your signal at around -18 to -12 on the DAW meters.

Is the signal still too low with the gain maxed out on the Scarlett? If so, there’s a problem somewhere.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Ramirez

[bazzbass]

after trying tube preamps, and many bass pre amps, two different amps and a few DIs, and the BEST tone I get on my Scarlett 2i2 and 18i20 is by going straight in to the Scarlett, no pdals,no preamps, no DIs. Plug bass into Scarlett, that's it