Cab sim and pedal board woes.

[JohnBox]

Hey all, 

 

Long time lurker, first time post. I’m setting up amp free pedal board and wanted some expertise to help me make some decisions. 
 

As of writing this I have a TC spectradrive at the beginning of my signal chain, the DI taking a clean signal out, and then chain going through a couple effects before spitting out, giving my audio interface the clean DI and the effected jack so I can balance between the two. 
 

Was happy with the set up, did a little messing about with the order of the effects but now I’ve done what I’ve always done, I’ve watched a video about cab sim pedals and it got me thinking.. why haven’t I got one of those?

 

So now I am wondering, how would I even add a cab sim? they seem pretty important for an “amp less pedal board” set up. I’m looking at something like the noisemaker omnicabsim.. but is that overkill? I’d then have two DI outs, one from my spectredrive and one from the cab sim. And where would I put that In my signal chain? Would i rearrange and go FX > Spec DI > Omni cab > DI out of that to front of house? 
 

this might be an obvious thing to others but it’s totally eluding me aha 

 

any comments, suggestions, laughing at my inexperience is totally welcomed (I’m an ex drummer, I’m used to just hitting then drum go bang bang) 

[stewblack]

26 minutes ago, JohnBox said:

any comments, suggestions, laughing at my inexperience is totally welcomed (I’m an ex drummer, I’m used to just hitting then drum go bang bang) 

For one thing, don't put yourself down, plenty of us can't answer that and those who can had to ask someone once themselves. No snobbery on Basschat!

Secondly drummers are our brothers and sisters in rhythm, and often the only tolerable members of the band, so that's a win for you right there!

Thirdly, I am utterly useless and can't answer your question, but I can bump it up a bit and see if someone helpful notices.

[JohnBox]

Bahaha well thank you!

I think it makes sense. So like the spectradrive is replacing the amp, and then the Omnicabsim is replacing the cab and I just treat each one as such? 
 

Make sense why I’ve been struggling to get like, a nice warm tone! 

[Jakester]

As a fellow drummer-turned bassist, welcome! 

Firstly, forgive me if I'm misreading, but it's not entirely clear why you're considering a cab sim - is it just for recording? If so, wouldn't a plugin work? 

If it's for live performance, exactly what are you looking to achieve? Do you want the same sound on stage as FOH? I presume not as you're using effects too (an idea of what effects you're using might be helpful). Do you want to be able to balance the effected and clean sounds live? 

[Skybone]

Have you looked at something like the Tech21 Sansamp Bass Driver DI or VT Bass DI pedals? They combine Preamp and Cab Sim, and have XLR DI Outputs.

There are plenty of other DI pedals available that have cab sims on board, but the Tech21 gear is very well respected and very versatile.

If you looked at MultiFX setups, you would have a host of further options available, by having both Preamp & DI on board, as well as having effects as well. This would negate having to have further pedals. There's the Zoom B1.Four at the lower end, right up to the likes of the Line6 Helix / Kemper / AxeFX / Headrush which will cost quite a bit.

Going "amp-less" is a bit of a fallacy, as you will still need some sort of means to make yourself heard. If you're looking at playing at home/recording/etc. then that's fine, a decent set of headphones will do the trick. If you're looking at playing pubs & clubs, then a decent PA with decent monitoring is probably not going to happen, and you'll still need some sort of amp to make yourself heard (to the band and the audience).

Edited November 25, 2020 by Skybone

[Baloney Balderdash]

Cab sims are not always necessarily needed to make a bass sound good going direct, they are though if you want to mimic your bass signal going through a proper bass cab realistically. 

Personally though I experimented with an amp-less setup for a while, including using a relatively high end cab sim IR loader, but settled with just EQ'ing myself to the exact tone that I like, and am really satisfied with how my setup works now.

Basically beside some other EQ'ing of my signal the main faux "cab sim" is just my ultra cheap Behringer BEQ700 Bass Graphic EQ, which is a pretty accurate clone of the Boss GEB-7, with the 10kHz band (which is a shelving type EQ) cut all the way down to -15dB and the 4.5kHz band (which is a regular notch/bell type EQ) cut about -1dB or so (edit!!!: revisited this and perfected it with a bit more nuanced EQ'ing via staking 5 of the 2 band parametric equalizers in my Zoom Ms-70CDR multi stomp pedal in an always on patch).

As said with some additional but fairly subtle EQ'ing, boosting a band here and there just 1 to 2 dB, using a fully parametric equalizer with the right Q values, it sounds as close to perfect as I can imagine, really satisfied with my DI sound, via a simple tube preamp, either into a headphones amp and then headphones, or into a poweramp and then a full range, approximately flat response, PA speaker.

I personally much prefer what I get out of this setup to when I used a proper cab sim.

My point being a cab sim isn't a must for an amp-less bass setup, it just possibly will make it easier to get the tone you are after, unless you know how to and got the means to specifically EQ yourself to it. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[bobbass4k]

It´s important to understnd what a cab sim is - like baloney alludes to above, they´re basically just a really aggressive, specific EQ that emulates the response of the speaker cones. I have one (a DIY one) permanently in front of my interface. With straight clean tone, I can live without it, but it´s absolutely essential for using distortion (and other) pedals.

Drive/Distortion pedals generate a lot of harsh high frequencies that the designers have assumed will be filtered or smoothed out by the amp/cab so will never sound as intended direct without a cab sim or aggressive EQíng.

If you´re going to be mainly doing straight clean, I´d say a cab sim is optional, and like baloney says, there may be other (cheaper) ways to get the sound you´re after.

[Kev]

I personally wouldn't wish to go FoH by DI without a cab sim. Particularly when using distortion, full range PA speakers are not kind to the high frequencies, so simulating a speaker cabinet and its eq curving is beneficial.  I use a Darkglass preamp, which has an IR Cab Sim loaded onto its DI and have got great result, both Live and recording.  I have previously owned Omnicabsim is a great pedal and really easy to use. 

However, a Cab Sim isn't deemed a must by many bassists, particularly if you don't have an overdriven tone.  I would still use one, but its relatively modern tech to have one on your pedalboard.