Barefaced Machinist

[Kev]

Sooo, what are we thinking about this?  The parallel cleans alternative to a blend is intriguing, and if designed by Cog we know it must work well! congested old arena, though...

https://barefacedaudio.com/products/machinist?variant=32901578752085

Edited November 25, 2020 by Kev

[Mattbass97]

I believe this may be a teaser video for this very pedal! Some nice tones and I do appreciate the parallel paths... Another demo video or two may have me sold.

 

[Salt on your Bass?]

Looks interesting. I'm surprised they've dived in this deep with a first release. It's expensive to take a punt on, but probably still represents value

I don't like the styling, and I'd prefer to buy cog tbh.

All in the tone, and like you say, Tom knows what he's doing.....so it'll be good I'm sure. Not my bag though 

[Al Krow]

What do I think?

Briefly excited when I see a sine, square and saw tooth symbols and get excited about a brand new synth pedal... 

...only to find it's yet another dirt 😂

[Beedster]

So it’s a fuzz box with 10 controls an three switches? 

[Beedster]

Is it easier to get a tube amp? 

[ryancowell25]

Based on a Knightfall and Tarkin with a clean channel?

[Beedster]

23 minutes ago, ryancowell25 said:

Based on a Knightfall and Tarkin with a clean channel?

I suddenly feel like I've come to the wrong forum

[Happy Jack]

25 minutes ago, ryancowell25 said:

Based on a Knightfall and Tarkin ...

They did the conveyancing on my flat in Chichester, I think?

 

[Beedster]

Can't help feeling a strong sense of disappointment that their first venture away from cabs is this? Guess they have their reasons

[machinehead]

10 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Can't help feeling a strong sense of disappointment that their first venture away from cabs is this? Guess they have their reasons

I was hoping for a top quality bass amp and I don't use pedals so this isn't for me.

Frank.

[Kev]

Definitely an underwhelming, and ambitiously priced, step into the arena.  It’s not sounding like anything too interesting either, they’ve dressed up a tone knob well, not sure otherwise if it’s just standard Cog circuitry with the blends missing.  If so, why has it just got Barefaced on the front plate?

[Beedster]

Yep, I was expecting a PJB-esque horizon defining piece of tech, not, well, whatever the flip this is (I’m still not sure to be honest, despite their having emailed me telling me how good it is). 

[Salt on your Bass?]

I think my problem with this is they don't build pedals. So customer feedback, continuous improvement and product development, r and d etc..... All feels mis placed. 

An amp has always made sense to me. Maximise the synergy with their cabs.

There's Lots of established, niche and quality pedal builders out there.... what is effectively an outsourced/ White label product via third party just feels it missed the point of the barefaced brand to me.

Not meaning to sound too critical, I guess just disappointed in the direction. ✌️

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Salt on your Bass?

[JohnDaBass]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

Can't help feeling a strong sense of disappointment that their first venture away from cabs is this? Guess they have their reasons

Barefaced probably do not have a vastly strong Balance Sheet so any deviation into new market segments have to be cautious. The Bass amp market place is very crowded with companies who are innovative enjoy huge balance sheets, resources and history. I think I understand Barefaced's direction of travel,  they have established a strong bass cab range and reputation, they are developing a complimentary FRFR range of active cabs, so a front end range of pre-amps would be a "low cost of entry" into products which extend their brand value. Perhaps we were a little over excited with their possibilities without fully grasping their financial constraints. 

I feel that the biggest omission is a DI output but this maybe addressed with a sister pedal being a straight forward preamp DI with a variable HPF.

Edited November 25, 2020 by JohnDaBass
Added 2nd thought

[Beedster]

14 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Barefaced probably do not have a vastly strong Balance Sheet so any deviation into new market segments have to be cautious. The Bass amp market place is very crowded with companies who are innovative enjoy huge balance sheets, resources and history. I think I understand Barefaced's direction of travel,  they have established a strong bass cab range and reputation, they are developing a complimentary FRFR range of active cabs, so a front end range of pre-amps would be a "low cost of entry" into products which extend their brand value. Perhaps we were a little over excited with their possibilities without fully grasping their financial constraints. 

I feel that the biggest omission is a DI output but this maybe addressed with a sister pedal being a straight forward preamp DI with a variable HPF.

Fair points, especially the use with FRFR. Seems risky however given that FRFR is still quite niche, boxes are an equally crowded marketplace as amps, and this is not a cheap unit. I certainly wish them all the best, my BF cab is awesome, but still think an amp would have been a better first step

[machinehead]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

Fair points, especially the use with FRFR. Seems risky however given that FRFR is still quite niche, boxes are an equally crowded marketplace as amps, and this is not a cheap unit. I certainly wish them all the best, my BF cab is awesome, but still think an amp would have been a better first step

I agree completely.

Frank.

[EBS_freak]

They say that pictures paint a thousand words. However, in this case, I feel a few labels may have been a little more appropriate.

Would have liked to see some collars on the LEDs too.

But hey, fair play on getting something to market. Difficult task.

Edited November 26, 2020 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

...only to find it's yet another dirt 😂

Theres a bit of a shortage.

[chris_b]

I don't use pedals, but I hope this is a good move for the company.

[Kiwi]

3 hours ago, JohnDaBass said:

The Bass amp market place is very crowded with companies who...enjoy huge...resources.

I agree and it's even more crowded for instruments which have greater reliance on precision for quality any way. The margins on pedals are better than amps once the R&D is done, the cost of parts is peanuts when purchased in bulk and the upfront capital investment in tooling etc. is lower.  Anyone can start a pedal business if they have the knowledge.  For example Land Devices started with one pedal in 2017, a tribute to an obscure fuzz pedal called the  Interfax Harmonic Perculator which sparked the interest of people behind Premier Guitar and Reverb.  They featured it and pretty soon the $500 investment in parts for the initial run of 20-40 pedals snowballed into a fully fledged production line.  For someone who is tone hunting, pedals are way more accessible than amps, players are more inclined to buy in greater volume so there's less risk to some degree.

If I was Alex, I'd be thinking about what customers would most likely use with the cabs.  Amps seem like a natural choice but they'd have to be game changing in the same way as the cabs were game changing.  Some amp companies offer voicing options, some offer features you'll probably never need, others go down the vintage tribute route, yet more target price points.   I'm not sure there's much to do there unless there's a shift in technology or construction.  But hell, I wouldn't mind a reasonably priced valve amp with tuner,  parallel and serial effect loops, 400w/50w power scaling, easy to replace parts and self biasing to reduce reliance on an amp technician for maintenance.  That's been missed in the bass market so far but guitarists have many of those features already.

[spyder]

I don't mean to put this new adventure from Barefaced down but I was also expecting an amp to match their great range of cabs.

I feel the Orange Bass Butler offers so much more with an onboard compressor, two DI outs with cab Sims and a similar parallel distortion / clean signal path.

I honestly wish Alex well with this pedal and I look forward to a Basschat review very soon.

 

[Beedster]

6 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I agree and it's even more crowded for instruments which have greater reliance on precision for quality any way. The margins on pedals are better than amps once the R&D is done, the cost of parts is peanuts when purchased in bulk and the upfront capital investment in tooling etc. is lower.  Anyone can start a pedal business if they have the knowledge.  For example Land Devices started with one pedal in 2017, a tribute to an obscure fuzz pedal called the  Interfax Harmonic Perculator which sparked the interest of people behind Premier Guitar and Reverb.  They featured it and pretty soon the $500 investment in parts for the initial run of 20-40 pedals snowballed into a fully fledged production line.  For someone who is tone hunting, pedals are way more accessible than amps, players are more inclined to buy in greater volume so there's less risk to some degree.

If I was Alex, I'd be thinking about what customers would most likely use with the cabs.  Amps seem like a natural choice but they'd have to be game changing in the same way as the cabs were game changing.  Some amp companies offer voicing options, some offer features you'll probably never need, others go down the vintage tribute route, yet more target price points.   I'm not sure there's much to do there unless there's a shift in technology or construction.  But hell, I wouldn't mind a reasonably priced valve amp with tuner,  parallel and serial effect loops, 400w/50w power scaling, easy to replace parts and self biasing to reduce reliance on an amp technician for maintenance.  That's been missed in the bass market so far but guitarists have many of those features already.

Good post, although I would have thought that BF have sufficient brand loyalty now to not have needed to produce a game-changing amp, just a good amp (which I guess is what many amp manufacturers do in reverse, game-changing amps, standard cabs)? I suspect a reliable and powerful unit styled to match their cabs would sell on brand power and aesthetics alone?

[Kev]

7 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I agree and it's even more crowded for instruments which have greater reliance on precision for quality any way. The margins on pedals are better than amps once the R&D is done, the cost of parts is peanuts when purchased in bulk and the upfront capital investment in tooling etc. is lower.  Anyone can start a pedal business if they have the knowledge.  For example Land Devices started with one pedal in 2017, a tribute to an obscure fuzz pedal called the  Interfax Harmonic Perculator which sparked the interest of people behind Premier Guitar and Reverb.  They featured it and pretty soon the $500 investment in parts for the initial run of 20-40 pedals snowballed into a fully fledged production line.  For someone who is tone hunting, pedals are way more accessible than amps, players are more inclined to buy in greater volume so there's less risk to some degree.

If I was Alex, I'd be thinking about what customers would most likely use with the cabs.  Amps seem like a natural choice but they'd have to be game changing in the same way as the cabs were game changing.  Some amp companies offer voicing options, some offer features you'll probably never need, others go down the vintage tribute route, yet more target price points.   I'm not sure there's much to do there unless there's a shift in technology or construction.  But hell, I wouldn't mind a reasonably priced valve amp with tuner,  parallel and serial effect loops, 400w/50w power scaling, easy to replace parts and self biasing to reduce reliance on an amp technician for maintenance.  That's been missed in the bass market so far but guitarists have many of those features already.

I mean you could be right, this could be about getting the foot in the door of the Effects game and, if this is successful, they can then go on to target more game changing ideas.  Other than the slight curiosity with the clean section, this is very much part of an unchanged game, and as someone says it simply seems to be a whitelabelling.  I can't envisage people getting excited by it though, I really can't.  The Cog circuitry used, unless modified more than it seems, has been around for ages.

I think when a company has the finances to back a new project, it needs to jump straight to game changing these days.  Look at Darkglass; nailed the pedal game, had no experience building amps whatsoever.  Built an amp with their tech built in; game changing.  Despite having no foot in the door, they sold like crazy and I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the best selling and most used Class D heads out there right now.  However, they also built somespeakers or, more accurately, effectively whitelabelled another cab builder. Not ground breaking, just standard high quality cabs with no particular features to shout about, other than the Darkglass badge.  Did they do as well as the heads?? Not even close. I have hardly seen anyone use them.  And I feel that will happen to Barefaced too, unless they do something different.

[Beedster]

12 minutes ago, Kev said:

I mean you could be right, this could be about getting the foot in the door of the Effects game and, if this is successful, they can then go on to target more game changing ideas.  Other than the slight curiosity with the clean section, this is very much part of an unchanged game, and as someone says it simply seems to be a whitelabelling.  I can't envisage people getting excited by it though, I really can't.  The Cog circuitry used, unless modified more than it seems, has been around for ages.

I think when a company has the finances to back a new project, it needs to jump straight to game changing these days.  Look at Darkglass; nailed the pedal game, had no experience building amps whatsoever.  Built an amp with their tech built in; game changing.  Despite having no foot in the door, they sold like crazy and I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the best selling and most used Class D heads out there right now.  However, they also built somespeakers or, more accurately, effectively whitelabelled another cab builder. Not ground breaking, just standard high quality cabs with no particular features to shout about, other than the Darkglass badge.  Did they do as well as the heads?? Not even close. I have hardly seen anyone use them.  And I feel that will happen to Barefaced too, unless they do something different.

Good post, I don't really know Darkglass, but in posting earlier I was thinking about PJB; ground breaking cab design, but - IMO - nothing hugely special or game-changing in terms of amps. Yet the amps have been hugely successful, and of course PJB make some very very popular combos. Which seemed to me to have been the obvious next step for BF also. Ground-breaking cabs + decent heads = market leading combo?