Should I stick with what I know?

[Bunion]

Ok guys and girls another ‘opinion wanted’ post. 

I’m aware everyone’s ears and tone preference are different, so throw those random brands and ideas in too.

Before January 2020 I hadn’t picked up a bass for 25 years and there are a lot of new names and configurations of amps and cabs on the market. 

Jeff ament and Mick Karn always intrigued me with their fretless playing in mainstream bands but I was to busy, skint and drunk (why I was skint) playing in a more traditional rock band to dabble in ‘the black arts’ 

Fast forward to 2020, hearing Tony Franklin bass bash III, Peter kastner playing his version of nardis on a Rob Allen

I am now the proud owner of my first fretless. 

Here’s my dilemma. 

I’m running at the moment  an Ampeg SVT 210he with an Ampeg micro VR that I picked up for a song off a mate. 

I’m looking for something more...

I remember years ago playing through an SWR baby blue combo it was just lovely for noodling could this be the amp/combo I’m wanting for home use or are there now better options. 

I’ve seen some great offers on bass chat for vanderkley, bergantino and barefaced 210 and 212 cabs (they are an unknown breed to me) 

If I went the route of one of these cabs am I better pairing it with possibly an Ampeg B15, SWR electric Blue or something more modern and easily sourced/maintained. 

This is for home playing on a fretless but I’m still chasing ‘that beautiful tone’ why should I have to listen to poor playing with reasonable sound quality, if I’m playing badly I still want it to be the best sounding badly out there... 

[tauzero]

Have you any idea about what's ugly with the tone at the moment?

[SpondonBassed]

How are you stringing it?  With flats or roundwounds?

If you haven't already given this some thought, I'd start from there.

[Bunion]

There’s nothing ugly about the sound, it’s an old head that took a tumble off a knocked stack ( hence the cheap purchase) it’s had to have a couple of home repairs and the cab has the usual snapped wood at the front and the tweeter isn’t working ( I’ve changed and checked the bulb in the back it’s the tweeter that’s buggered) but the setup got me going again.

I’m fortunate to have carried on working through the current climate and would like something a bit more upmarket. 
I’m familiar with Ampeg and SWR from older times. There’s been so much change since I last looked at rigs and not much chance to get out and try things I thought I’d ask others opinions 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Bunion

[Bunion]

It came with flats it now has rounds. The bass is fine. I’m after opinions on modern alternatives to Ampeg or SWR. There are cabs that have great reviews for sale in the forums but I’ve never had chance to try them out. 

[skankdelvar]

[Bunion]

👆 this 😂🤣

[skankdelvar]

But seriously, there are lots of nice home noodling options out there, ranging from inexpensive little secondhand 10" combos in the BC marketplace, boutique-y wallet-emptiers and hardware amp sims in a box.

Take your time, trawl through the forum, visit a few shops (if they're open). It'll be fun 

Edited December 5, 2020 by skankdelvar

[SpondonBassed]

12 minutes ago, Bunion said:

It came with flats it now has rounds. The bass is fine. I’m after opinions on modern alternatives to Ampeg or SWR. There are cabs that have great reviews for sale in the forums but I’ve never had chance to try them out. 

I had it the other way 'round with mine.  When I put black nylon tapes on, I found the tone suited it much better.  I had only changed the strings to limit the wear and tear on a fingerboard that had a black finish just starting to fail in some spots but I liked the change in tone a lot.

[Bunion]

I had some black tapes on an old jazz copy I bought years ago, I kept them as I couldn’t afford new strings at the time I seem to recall the bass was around £20 possibly a Tokai I don’t even remember what happened to it...

I’m not to worried about the fretboard wear I’m not gigging anymore so it will be awhile before I need a redress (must remember softer touch and violin wiggle not guitar bend) 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Bunion

[Bunion]

6 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Take your time, trawl through the forum, visit a few shops (if they're open). It'll be fun 

Always good advice fingers crossed for next year 

[SpondonBassed]

Well, you can say it's overkill for a hobby bassist but my rig is an Ashdown Combo on top of an 18 inch Trace ext cab in the workshop or the Laney RB3 sat into the redundant fireplace in the living room.

I use a Zoom B3.  This also acts as an excellent headphone amp for keeping it to myself when I need to.  It has many amp and speaker combinations simulated.

[Bunion]

Dont tempt me to go ‘BIG’ I’m easily swayed 😂🤣

[Frank Blank]

Don’t buy a trad amp/cab until you have tried an FRFR setup. I play a Rob Allen fretless, my first serious foray into fretless, a part of that decision was seeing that video of Nardis, another part was my forty year long love of Mick Karn! I used to play through an AER amp but nothing (imho) compares to a decent FRFR setup. I go through a HX Stomp into a QSC K12.2 and it’s superb but in all honesty it sounds delicious going straight into the QSC.

[Bunion]

I read, I think your thread? on the frfr setup with interest and saw the responses in favour of it.

I’ll definitely be talking to a couple of friends who are sound engineers and see if I can borrow something as they are mostly redundant atm. 
 

12 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

it sounds delicious

This best describes what I’m after. A delicious tone. 

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, Bunion said:

I read, I think your thread? on the frfr setup with interest and saw the responses in favour of it.

I’ll definitely be talking to a couple of friends who are sound engineers and see if I can borrow something as they are mostly redundant atm. 
 

This best describes what I’m after. A delicious tone. 

Well if you don’t get a chance to try one out before things improve let me know and you are welcome to try mine out. I’m taking it you have taken a look at this thread...

 

[Bunion]

Yes that’s the one I read, I think there’s one on the site that shall not be named also. 
Thanks for the offer if a sharp jab up the backside courtesy of the government doesn’t sort everyone out soon I may well take you up on that. 

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, Bunion said:

Yes that’s the one I read, I think there’s one on the site that shall not be named also. 
Thanks for the offer if a sharp jab up the backside courtesy of the government doesn’t sort everyone out soon I may well take you up on that. 

No worries.

[dmccombe7]

Do you have a budget set aside for this bass rig. ?

Do you want to go lightweight or does weight not matter. ?

What did Mick Karn use if he was an influence for you. Obviously the WAL bass probably had a fair impact on his sound but i'm no expert on him.

If looking at something modern would you prefer the warmth of tubes or a combination of tube pre-amp and whatever type of power stage. ?

What bass are you using ?

All of these questions might help us advise what might fit your requirements. Personally my fretless sounds good thru any amp i've used it with whether that be Class D, SS or my current Mesa rig (my Mesa rig is quite heavy but they do lightweight gear but generally expensive even 2nd hand)

Why not listen to some fretless players and then do a youtube rig rundown on their gear see if that leads you anywhere. Def try the local shops if possible.

Dave 

 

[Frank Blank]

3 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

What did Mick Karn use if he was an influence for you. Obviously the WAL bass probably had a fair impact on his sound but i'm no expert on him.

A good question, in most interviews, and indeed his book, he just says he used ‘whatever amps were around’. He played Travis Bean and Kramer basses prior to his WAL phase.

[Bunion]

I have a stingray 4. 
I'm always wary of taking other people’s ‘sounds’ as quite often they have effects that we are not privy to in play. Plus everyone has their own voice in the fingertips. 
I’m sure Mick karn or Tony Franklin could pick up my bass and still sound like themselves (alas not Mick anymore.)
while the influence to check out fretless has come from a number of players some I couldn’t even name after getting into the YouTube rabbit hole on certain nights, I’m more fascinated by the freedom and expression that people get, 

I’m not after one particular phrase  I’m excited to learn the whole language. 

weight isn’t really an issue, I may have the chance to get something together with some friends after lockdown but it’s not something that’s a rush 

I’ve not set a budget if the right thing comes along I’ll buy it. 

Tubes were always my preference but I’m not sure how good modern amps are now at modelling as I’ve been out of the loop for 25 years 
 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Bunion

[Bunion]

I was thinking of maybe a 210 or 212 cab something I can add to if I need it later. 
ive read good things of vanderkley, barefaced and bergantino but have never seen or heard one in the flesh. 
 

for reference I used to play through an Ampeg SVT II, SWR Goliath 410 with a Big Ben but that was a different story 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Bunion

[dmccombe7]

I currently run a Mesa Mpulse 600 thru a Mesa Powerhouse 212 cab and it has that warmth of tone plus it seems to have a depth of tone that other amps i've tried don't seem to have. That's just my experience tho.

I've tried the Berg AE112 cabs (2off lightweight cabs) and found they lacked something that i could never put my finger on it. I currently have a Berg HT322 cab but hat's a beast and a half with a 12" with 2x10's and a horn. It doesn't lack depth but its a lot sharper more modern tone than my Mesa cab which isn't bad for a cab that's now quite dated.

I've never tried the Barefaced cabs but many on BC love them. Tried the Vanderkeley in Bass Direct when i was down and they sounded similar to my Berg AE112 cabs.

My intention is to go for the Mesa lightweight gear. WD800 tube pre with class D and then into the lightweight subway cabs. Try youtubing them to get an idea for tone but they aint cheap by any means.

I had an Ampeg SVT4 Pro and it was good apart from the weight but not like my Mesa head.

I've tried the EBS HD360 head thru Ampeg 8x10 cabs in studio and i really like them for fretted basses.

For me i would go down the tube pre-amp with some form of power stage. The tube pre gives that added warmth that always sounds nice in a fretless.

Another nice rig i tried last year was the new Orange Terror 500 thru the new 112 cabs and that sounded big and warm too.

Some of the new lightweight class D amps i find are too clinical for my tastes so be careful what you look at there.

Not sure whether this helped or not. More a wish list for me 😂

Dave

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Bunion said:

Dont tempt me to go ‘BIG’ I’m easily swayed 😂🤣

You're GASsing like a proper old Basschat lag now...

Well done, carry on.

[Bunion]

It’s all good, I’ve read a lot of reviews on cabs and Amps but not really for fretless. 
it’s nice to hear that side of it