Info for Teachers... ADHD

[Grangur]

Some time back I was paying some bass genius in the USA silly money for lessons. What stopped me was when he made some comment about "you're not listening".

"Yes, I am", I thought, "but how can I help it if my brain, when you're talking, goes off on a tangent and I lose track for a few moments?!?!"

What I didn't know then, but I'm getting to accept now, at the age of 61, is I may be ADHD. I can lay awake at night, kept awake with my brain going on 3-4 subjects all at the same time like a tombola drum. I don't run around the room or anything, but my brain never rests: This, it seems is ADHD.

What is scary is how so often the rest of the world only sees a few symptoms and they get spoken about, but teachers might find it useful to know about all the other complications going on underneath that you don't know about and few talk about it.

I hope this is helpful to some here.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Grangur

[TheGreek]

I have many of the "symptoms" on that list and I don't have ADHD.

My nephew, aged 5 or 6 was diagnosed with ADHD but has A levels and a degree. He now has a well paid job (£45KPA) with The City of London Police.

Though I accept there are some with behavioural issues IMO it's far too easy to put labels or "conditions" to explain so called "behaviour problems" which don't exist. In my life as a drug worker I've met loads of people with these "conditions" who merely lacked boundaries as a result of poor/ inadequate parenting.

Not saying that's what you have Rich.

[Grangur]

Fair comment Mick @TheGreek. TBH I may not actally be ADHD, but I thought it could be useful to some to at least be aware of how certain folk can have issues going on under the hood without them knowing. It's easy to assume certain things and you may not be seeing the whole story.... as you know, of course, knowing your background with a variety of folk.

[Nail Soup]

Teachers have a difficult job.... hopefully things like this are helpful to them.

[PatrickJ]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Though I accept there are some with behavioural issues IMO it's far too easy to put labels or "conditions" to explain so called "behaviour problems" which don't exist. In my life as a drug worker I've met loads of people with these "conditions" who merely lacked boundaries as a result of poor/ inadequate parenting.

Not saying that's what you have Rich.

As a parent with a kid with ADHD and ASD comments like this make me incredible angry.  

The OP wasn't talking about behavioural problems - more exploring why he has found learning and other aspects of life challenging and sharing some information about that.  50 years ago I very much doubt ADHD would have been picked up on and if the OP had these sorts of challengers at school was probably labelled a disruptive or under achieving kid.   Exploring nuero-diversity wouldn't have been a thing back then.  I think it's great @Grangurthat you are exploring it now.  Since my son's diagnosis I have been recognising his traits in myself and  understanding him helps me understand me, it answers questions from my youth as to why I struggled, was unhappy and volatile that I could never previously understand.  It's helped me understand and accept myself more.

Poor / inadequate parenting and lack of boundaries is going to cause many kids to follow undesirable paths, whether they have ADHD or not.

I have multiple kids, all brought up in the same house with the same values.  Only one can be challenging from behavioural perspective - this is not because of lack of boundaries it's driven by sensory overload and overwhelming anxiety that can't be regulated.  All this bursts out in explosive anger.

Teachers in schools these days do get training on ADHD and ASD and support is available for them though some are better at understanding and adapting than others.  The school environment can be a huge factor in how well a child can cope - we had to move my kid into a different school because his didn't and the difference that made to him has been incredible - IT'S NOT ALL THE PARENTS!!!  We are still tryif to repair the damage that school has done to him in terms of accepting himself, crippling low self-esteem as a result of how they treated him.

Charts and information you share are great.  School teachers do get training on this stuff.  Private music teachers DO NOT.  My kids drum teacher had never taught a kid with ADHD / ASD before and had no idea on how to approach it.  He was amazing, he went and did a bunch of research but I bet most don't or wouldn't know what signs to look out for.

 

[Bassfinger]

Im dyslexic and suffer sleep apnoea and have most of the symptoms on the list. 

Self diagnosis is rarely either accurate or helpful.

But going back to ADHD, its increasingly looking like mamy people supposedly with the "condition" (debate still rages as to whether its medical or behavioural) are actually victims of ACES, and it is that which is the cause of their behavioural abnormalities.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Bassfinger

[andytoad]

26 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

As a parent with a kid with ADHD and ASD comments like this make me incredible angry.  

The OP wasn't talking about behavioural problems - more exploring why he has found learning and other aspects of life challenging and sharing some information about that.  50 years ago I very much doubt ADHD would have been picked up on and if the OP had these sorts of challengers at school was probably labelled a disruptive or under achieving kid.   Exploring nuero-diversity wouldn't have been a thing back then.  I think it's great @Grangurthat you are exploring it now.  Since my son's diagnosis I have been recognising his traits in myself and  understanding him helps me understand me, it answers questions from my youth as to why I struggled, was unhappy and volatile that I could never previously understand.  It's helped me understand and accept myself more.

Poor / inadequate parenting and lack of boundaries is going to cause many kids to follow undesirable paths, whether they have ADHD or not.

I have multiple kids, all brought up in the same house with the same values.  Only one can be challenging from behavioural perspective - this is not because of lack of boundaries it's driven by sensory overload and overwhelming anxiety that can't be regulated.  All this bursts out in explosive anger.

Teachers in schools these days do get training on ADHD and ASD and support is available for them though some are better at understanding and adapting than others.  The school environment can be a huge factor in how well a child can cope - we had to move my kid into a different school because his didn't and the difference that made to him has been incredible - IT'S NOT ALL THE PARENTS!!!  We are still tryif to repair the damage that school has done to him in terms of accepting himself, crippling low self-esteem as a result of how they treated him.

Charts and information you share are great.  School teachers do get training on this stuff.  Private music teachers DO NOT.  My kids drum teacher had never taught a kid with ADHD / ASD before and had no idea on how to approach it.  He was amazing, he went and did a bunch of research but I bet most don't or wouldn't know what signs to look out for.

 

I think Mick's view from his work experience is just as valid as yours (accepting Mick prefers Spectors over Warwicks) From a wider general public view (ie in my view not having any first hand experience) I see alot of 'local rag' reports of court proceedings from so called professionals that use these conditions as a defence.

Whether that is right or wrong (as a defence), the link to crime as a reason for a soft sentence galvanise's public opinion to rubbish it as valid. IMV.

Please don't get me wrong, I am in no way suggesting your family are in any way linked to crime. I'm just trying to highlight negative publicity that may contribute to views that I see on  the ***southeast county containing Dover*** online webpage that exacerbates pre held views when debates like this occur.

[Simon.]

I find this a really interesting subject, but one which can be hugely subjective and open to individual interpretation.

In a parallel life, I work as a tennis coach, mostly for juniors. A couple of years ago I had a new lad join one of my classes, and his parents were very diligent beforehand, explain that he was very much on the Autism spectrum and they just wanted him to give it a go and have some fun. No worries.

A couple of weeks in and I was really struggling to connect with the lad and get him engaged in any way. It was really frustrating. I read and re-read the coaching literature on dealing with Autistic children, but nothing worked. Then one day I read the section on ADHD, and it fitted like a glove! Pretty much overnight I was able to get the lad to engage with the lessons, even start to interact with the other kids.

It's not straight forward, and many (most) non-mainstream teachers / coaches / educators will have had little or no education on the subject.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Simon.

[PatrickJ]

13 minutes ago, andytoad said:

I think Mick's view from his work experience is just as valid as yours (accepting Mick prefers Spectors over Warwicks) From a wider general public view (ie in my view not having any first hand experience) I see alot of 'local rag' reports of court proceedings from so called professionals that use these conditions as a defence.

 

What upset me about the post from theGreek was the implication that ADHD is simply a label used as an excuse for bad parenting.

2 hours ago, TheGreek said:

IMO it's far too easy to put labels or "conditions" to explain so called "behaviour problems" which don't exist. In my life as a drug worker I've met loads of people with these "conditions" who merely lacked boundaries as a result of poor/ inadequate parenting.

This is what parents of kids with ADHD / ASD face all the time by people who like to put quotes around the word "conditions".

Trust me , we spend enough time feeling like we're failing and not doing a good enough job - we don't need to be told we're shitty parents by those who have no experience living with it day in day out.

[Burns-bass]

7 hours ago, PatrickJ said:

What upset me about the post from theGreek was the implication that ADHD is simply a label used as an excuse for bad parenting.

This is what parents of kids with ADHD / ASD face all the time by people who like to put quotes around the word "conditions".

Trust me , we spend enough time feeling like we're failing and not doing a good enough job - we don't need to be told we're shitty parents by those who have no experience living with it day in day out.

My daughter has SEN provision at school for many of the issues listed above, so I understand your point Patrick. It’s very tough and there is judgement on the parents, that’s undeniable - even from family.

There’s a world of difference between someone self-diagnosing themselves and one provided by a professional team. If you look at how vague some of the symptoms appear, it’s no wonder (it’s why so many people claim to have had Covid earlier this year when the statistical probability is that they had a bad flu and just want to feel special).

It appears that much of the research comes from the US where the default treatment is with a range of drugs. The skepticism is often fuelled by the belief that this is a conspiracy by drugs companies. Thankfully, in the U.K. the focus is more on strategies and approaches that are inclusive. Thank goodness!

In my experience, *every* professional I have encountered has been helpful, respectful and supportive. My daughter receives wonderful support from her teachers, support worker and school and has made incredible progress. I really hope you experience the same.

Anyone who has been in your shoes won’t judge.

 

[Bassfinger]

Go see a Doc Grangur.  As helpful and encouraging as I'd like to be im a rock hound on the verge of retirement, not a doc or a pshrink.

If it's not too sensitive for you as time goes by,  please let us kmow how you get on,

Edited December 10, 2020 by Bassfinger

[Lozz196]

ADHD is a genuine condition, and thankfully people are now aware of it, and as such can tailor education etc so that people with it can benefit as much as possible,

However how many kids that misbehave will use it as an excuse, possibly with their parents backing, that’s what concerns me. I think back to my school days and no-one in Mr Sprays class misbehaved, whereas the behaviour in Miss Fields’ class was appalling. Looking at many of those kids they would have happily used ADHD as an excuse for messing about. And as a result behaviour such as this could make people take it less seriously.

 

[Grangur]

2 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Go see a Doc Grangur.  As helpful and encouraging as I'd like to be im a rock hound on the verge of retirement, not a doc or a pshrink.

If it's not too sensitive for you as time goes by,  please let us kmow how you get on,

To be honest, I've got this far without drugs and unless I'm stressed, I don't sleep too badly most of the time. So I'll get by.

All I really wanted to do here was, not get folk labels, but to raise the awareness to these issues and get folk to realise how there's more to this than simply poor parenting or attention seeking naughty kids. It's even worth teachers simply being aware that some folk may have mild issues going on that mean they might have difficulty.

Some folk may have a mild dyslexia issue, for example. They don't need a label. Yet they might just need a bit more patience than some others, or a different approach than the "one size fits all", "this is how I teach modes and it always works..." type of attitude.

Thanks for reading and posting.

[Lozz196]

Agree, Rich, having been in training the most important factor always is the delegates, and it’s the responsibility of the trainer to identify the best way to deliver based upon their learning style.

[mikel]

Always been my problem, inability to focus. My brain keeps saying "Oooo look at that, and that, and that" The only way I can fully switch it off is to read a book. Reading seems to engage my wayward mind. I never misbehaved at school, I simply found some of the subjects mind numbingly boring and frustrating. Needless to say I was not academically clever, but have since qualified as a toolmaker and passed many athletics coaching exams.

Edited December 10, 2020 by mikel

[Nail Soup]

I don't have ADHD or anything like that, but my brain is wired such that I struggle to focus…. my mind goes on tangent after tangent ending up down some rabbit hole most of the time. I like it!

I think is the main part of who I am, but comes at price sometime.

All my school reports said that I was not disruptive, but a daydreamer.... most often I'd go into my own internal world.

[Grangur]

Hey @Nail Soup good to know I'm not alone. I was the same.

For me the only hassle is when the missus talks to me, sometimes half way through I'll ask, "what was the 2nd part of what you were saying just now? My mind went walkabout."

She's understanding and accept it. Besides, she's dyslexic and I help her with her issues.

[Geek99]

On 09/12/2020 at 20:49, Grangur said:

Fair comment Mick @TheGreek. TBH I may not actally be ADHD, but I thought it could be useful to some to at least be aware of how certain folk can have issues going on under the hood without them knowing. It's easy to assume certain things and you may not be seeing the whole story.... as you know, of course, knowing your background with a variety of folk.

It’s a spectrum mr G, not a prescription list. Try getting something to move around in your hands (like a string of beads) when you have to concentrate 

 

my two girls both have adhd and it’s how they get thru school 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Geek99

[Grangur]

Yes I appreciate that Mick.  In some respects its not even that. The labels try to pigeon-hole people, but the brain doesn't fit neatly into those predefined categories. It picks slices out of all sorts of areas.

Some folk are dyslexic in some areas. One person in our family is quite severely dyslexic, and dyspraxic to the point of being allowed to have a personal help at Uni. Yet she's the most prolific reader I know. She's got a degree in English and American Literatures and is finishing off writing her first novel and started on her 2nd, whilst working as a freelance copywriter. But then there are other people with the same label, in the same pigeon-hole, who can't read. 

Thanks all the same.

[mikel]

On another tack. I have taught a few people to play drums, and others to play guitar. Rather than telling them this is what you have to do, I ask them to pick a song they love and would like to learn to play. That way they are interested, motivated and not overwhelmed by "learning to play an instrument". I was never interested in going down the learning to read music or practicing rudiments route, they don't hold my interest or excite me. By learning stuff I like I learn almost by osmosis. I found I could teach people to play at a basic level with this method, and if they wanted to take it further they could find a music teacher or invest their own time into learning scales, rudiments, theory etc. Each to their own.