Kontakt - pre-beginner advice please

[Nicko]

I am using an old version of Cubase Elements.  It does NOT support addition of MIDI tracks - ie you can create a VST instrument track or you can create an audio track and that's you lot.

I'm seeing loads of VSTs that are using Kontakt player  - am I right in thinking I need MIDI track functionality to use it?

[Dad3353]

Not a User of Cubase, but I believe it will treat Kontakt as a Virtual Instrument. If you try it, be sure to understand where the Vst should be in your disk, so that Cubase can find it. It differs depending on 32/64 bits, but I can't give more detail than that.
I'll be the first, but maybe not the last, to recommend thinking of moving on to another DAW at some time..? 

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

Not a User of Cubase, but I believe it will treat Kontakt as a Virtual Instrument. If you try it, be sure to understand where the Vst should be in your disk, so that Cubase can find it. It differs depending on 32/64 bits, but I can't give more detail than that.
I'll be the first, but maybe not the last, to recommend thinking of moving on to another DAW at some time..? 

Thanks.  

Do you have something against Cubase in general,  the fact that I'm using an old version or the fact that I'm so cheap that I'm using Elements?   

I don't have a massive issue with Cubase although the lack of MIDI tracks on the freebee can be limiting.  Upgrading to a different version of Cubase would mean changing to a new PC.  

I also have Ableton Live Lite which I prefer if I'm using all VSTs, but the 8 track limit on it is more frustrating and I don't like it for using real instruments because I still haven't resolved the latency issues.  

I have considered going all out and paying for Reaper but I'll probably wait until I get either really frustrated with Cubase or need to upgrade the PC.

[Dad3353]

18 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Thanks...

No, nothing against Cubase for any of the reasons given, but whatever choice one makes, there are compromises to be made. Personally I have been using using Reaper for ... well, even longer than that, and 'trialed' it for nothing for well over a year. I did finally decide to buy a license, but it has worked out to be less than the price of a cup of ordinary coffee per year (although, to be fair, I never drink coffee anyway, so...).
No, the main concern is having software that your 'platform' can support (I've never been one for acquiring 'cutting edge' stuff; all my 'puters have always been very low spec...), having a 'workflow' that makes sense (I have found it fairly easy to do easy stuff with any DAW, and I only do easy stuff, so...), and having the flexibility to be able to handle the very divers media and methods dictated by one's Muse. For me, Reaper does all of this; others have great success with other stuff. There's a reason why Cubase, Protools, GarageBand et al are used so widely, and for so long. They're all good; one just has to choose whichever ticks the most boxes, and accept whatever this choice implies. Reaper does all I need; there are many DAWs out there, including many fine free or low-cost ones.
Be aware, too, that Kontakt (even the Player version...) and Vsts in general, are a rabbit hole; it's often a Good Idea to have some kind of brake on one's aspirations, lest one falls into the 'All the gear, no Idea' trap. I'd be embarrassed to explain how I came to know this. 
Hope this helps. 

[lowdown]

No need to move on to another DAW just yet. Cubase has two options of using Midi with VSTi's. Although, Elements only allows 16 midi tracks. Or the older versions did.

 

One option would be where a Midi track would need to have an Audio track assigned to it (this is called a Rack Instrument).

 This usually happens automatically when selecting and setting up an Instance of Kontakt.

The reason being is you can assign several Audio tracks to Kontakt. Kontakt is multi timbral instrument, so it can have 16 midi tracks in one instance, each having it's own Audio output,

 rather than one stereo output for all 16 midi channels. This would give you less control with FX etc.

 

The second option is a VST Instrument track (as you point out). This one track has Midi and audio combined on the same track.

The older versions of Elements would only allow 16 of these VST Instrument tracks. Which in your case, would be 16 separate Kontakt instances.

 

It's a shame you didn't mention this a few days ago. Steinberg had a one month sale on, with 50% off certain software, including Elements 11. Which ended up at £42.50.

The new version is quite an upgrade for Elements, with more options on the track count.

 

YouTube has quite a few videos regarding your question. These videos will explain the difference(s) between the two types of track.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by lowdown

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, lowdown said:

One option would be where a Midi track would need to have an Audio track assigned to it (this is called a Rack Instrument).

It's a shame you didn't mention this a few days ago. Steinberg had a one month sale on, with 50% off certain software, including Elements 11. Which ended up at £44.50.

Unfortunately, neither of these options is available.  I may have mislead you as its Elements LE.

No such thing as a rack instrument in Cubase 7 LE as far as I can see (when I said old, I meant ancient!).

Cubase 11 runs on Win 10 and I'm running 8 on my PC and 7 on my laptop.

I have a multitimbral VST synth that I use.  In Ableton I can send the midi tracks to the synth and have different tracks playing on each channel, but in Cubase I can only have multiple textures playing the same single midi program  on a VST track (great for the bass and synth tracking in eg Muse Hysteria - but rubbish for most other things!), or have multiple instrument tracks each with its own synth.  I'd assumed that Kontakt would work in a similar way - which is why I asked the question and I think that's what you are saying in your response.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Nicko

[lowdown]

12 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Unfortunately, neither of these options is available.  I may have mislead you as its Elements LE.

No such thing as a rack instrument in Cubase 7 LE as far as I can see (when I said old, I meant ancient!).

Cubase 11 runs on Win 10 and I'm running 8 on my PC and 7 on my laptop.

I have a multitimbral VST synth that I use.  In Ableton I can send the midi tracks to the synth and have different tracks playing on each channel, but in Cubase I can only have multiple textures playing the same single midi program  on a VST track (great for the bass and synth tracking in eg Muse Hysteria - but rubbish for most other things!), or have multiple instrument tracks each with its own synth.  I'd assumed that Kontakt would work in a similar way - which is why I asked the question and I think that's what you are saying in your response.

 Ah, okay.

 I'm not really sure what Elements LE is, but it sounds quite old from what you are saying.

[Nicko]

11 hours ago, lowdown said:

 Ah, okay.

 I'm not really sure what Elements LE is, but it sounds quite old from what you are saying.

LE is the lightest of light versions.  I think it is now just called LE but when I got it I think it was Elements LE.  It was/is a free package bundled with some hardware packages.  I got my version back in 2013 as part of the Focusrite Scarlett package which I used very rarely and have only recently started exploring it properly.