The next JV Squier (in your opinion)

[SamPlaysBass]

🚨 Contentious thread alert 🚨 

I’ve been looking at JV Squiers recently, and the prices are well over a grand now. 2 years ago, I’d have said that £750 was the norm for a fair condition JV P or J bass. I know they are great instruments and in some people’s view as close as you can get to an original 60s Pre-CBS job, but they’re only worth what people will pay for them. Judging by the prices, someone must be buying them!

This made me think. ‘What’s the next JV Squier?’ - in other words, which fairly innocuous bass/amp/pedal etc. do you predict will shoot up in value when people catch on to how good they are? 

Or, conversely, what internet hype will make an average bass/amp/pedal shoot up in value, justly or unjustly?

My tuppence goes on 80s/90s era Trace Elliot stuff because they are louder than the Big Bang and cheap as chips currently. Your turn! 

[Pea Turgh]

Bought mine for £250 about 10 years ago.  Boom!

[Paul S]

The Chinese Squier 'Vista Series' Musicmasters seem to have rocketed in price recently.  I had one for a while and would say it was an excellent little bass.  A league better than the Fender Musicmaster I had at the same time.   But they seem to change hands for more than MIJ or more recent P/J Mustangs, which seems a little unwarranted to me.

[Lozz196]

The original Classic Vibe basses, and especially the Matt Freeman Precision.

[SamPlaysBass]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

The original Classic Vibe basses, and especially the Matt Freeman Precision.

Good shout, and the Pino style red one. I owned a tastefully modded Squier Chris Aiken P bass from the same vintage. Regretted selling that big time. 

[SamPlaysBass]

1 hour ago, Paul S said:

The Chinese Squier 'Vista Series' Musicmasters seem to have rocketed in price recently.  I had one for a while and would say it was an excellent little bass.  A league better than the Fender Musicmaster I had at the same time.   But they seem to change hands for more than MIJ or more recent P/J Mustangs, which seems a little unwarranted to me.

I’ve just checked t’internet - there’s a Vista Musicmaster on evilBay for £600. There’s also a 1978 Fender Musicmaster on Kytary for £963. Bloody hell! Great shout. 

[OliverBlackman]

Marcus Miller signed Sire basses? I had an early V7 but must have just missed out on the first batch. 

[Bassman68]

The original Musicman American made S.U.B basses seem to be holding their value these days?
I’d be interested in how the first Sterling by Musicman Ray 34/35’s fair...

German built Warwicks pre 2000 took a dip but seem to be climbing again?

But these are mostly for personal/selfish reasons as I have a 10 yr old SterlingRay 35 & 4 pre 2000 Warwicks (Not that I want to get rid of any of these basses yet) 😉

 

[Bassman68]

Just thought of another that I’ve seen a price increase in...

Squier bullet basses
 

What’s going on there?

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Paul S said:

The Chinese Squier 'Vista Series' Musicmasters seem to have rocketed in price recently.  I had one for a while and would say it was an excellent little bass.  A league better than the Fender Musicmaster I had at the same time.   But they seem to change hands for more than MIJ or more recent P/J Mustangs, which seems a little unwarranted to me.

wasn't the vista series early 90's Japanese or am I thinking of something else? 

[Paul S]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

wasn't the vista series early 90's Japanese or am I thinking of something else? 

Possibly thinking of 'Silver Series' which were one of the last hoorahs for MIJ Squiers?  Actually they were damned fine instruments, too - I had both a P and J from the 'Silver Series' and they were excellent.  The P bass in particular.    Vista Series were defo Chinese and, I think, a bit later.

[LukeFRC]

3 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Possibly thinking of 'Silver Series' which were one of the last hoorahs for MIJ Squiers?  Actually they were damned fine instruments, too - I had both a P and J from the 'Silver Series' and they were excellent.  The P bass in particular.    Vista Series were defo Chinese and, I think, a bit later.

no - turns out I was thinking of the guitars which were made in Japan, and the Musicmaster in China http://www.squierwiki.com/Vista-Series 

Edited December 15, 2020 by LukeFRC

[Paul S]

How strange!  Wonder why they did that?

[James Nada]

3 hours ago, Bassman68 said:

Just thought of another that I’ve seen a price increase in...

Squier bullet basses
 

What’s going on there?

And there's one for sale BC right now.  Not mine, but I've been tempted by it.

[Pea Turgh]

2 minutes ago, James Nada said:

And there's one for sale BC right now.  Not mine, but I've been tempted by it.

There are two!  I’d have one if I had the cash.

[KevL]

Before suggesting the next big thing to be snapping up, I put down a few thoughts as to why I think the JVs have become what they are. 

The success of the Squier JV Series was the result of a few things that are unlikely to occur now. They were made to a high standard in terms of materials (good wood was the norm, US pickups, decent hardware etc), construction (the Japanese had shown the standard of guitars they could make, Dan Smith played that to his advantage), accuracy (the Japanese pretty much made the instruments exactly as per the year being copied), no really limiting budget (these were a main product for Fender whilst the US production was getting sorted out). 

The JVs were recognised at the time as being good guitars (although not every one is outstanding, I've seen some with less-than-svelte cutaways, for example) and whilst they have always been respected and quietly-collectible, I think the increase in collectability - and, therefore, price - is really down to the internet. At first, this would have been genuine enthusiasts happily sharing their love of the instruments and history (21frets, planetbotch etc) but in the last few years it seems everybody is after 'the next thing' (not just basses or musical  instruments) that has a bit of a story, maybe some myth and certainly has to be 'vintage' - this last now seems to feature in pretty much every sales ad for, er...anything. The JVs do have all these qualities, together with the actual quality-of-product to back it up.

There were also just enough made to establish their reputation and make them accessible but not too many made, thus keeping them desirable. They also were made at just the right time for those who couldn't afford one then to satisfy their longing now, and those who weren't even born in the early-mid 80s to be able to see what the fuss was about, although the recent price rises may preclude some hopeful buyers.

Although this has turned into a long sprawl about JVs, I wanted to show that I think they were the result of unusual and unique circumstances that won't occur again. The Chinese Squier CV (especially the first runs?) do have some similarities - most obviously the Squier name - but you can be certain that Fender will have built them strictly to a budget (no US pickups here, for example) and would not have had to make them top-quality as they already had their Mexican, US and Custom Shop ranges to sell, unlike when the JVs were made. This is not to be taken that they are poor guitars but I do think that they have been subjected to a little internet-hype. 

Could other basses/guitars be the next JVs? The Japanese basses of the late 70s and early 80s (Greco, Burny etc.those that caused Dan Smith to turn to Japan for the Squier manufacturing) are already well-known with prices increasing. Ibanez from that era are well-respected but just not as well-known as Fender/Squier and will probably not gain a massive following. My favourite brand, G&L (particularly the original Leo Fender era) always seem to remain niche, I think any massive increase in demand and price would have happened by now.

Staying on that brand, I have noticed that the early Tribute series by G&L seem to get a lot of praise so may be ones to look out for (cue prices going up...,) but, as mentioned, they will always suffer from just being generally less well-known than the Big F.

Another suggestion for a future collectable: the Fender Mexican Classic with the nitro finish, I think it was made within the last few years - not sure of the exact name or years but I vaguely remember there was one or two versions that seemed more sought-after than the rest.

Happy for any corrections to any of the above as I've written from memory so may be out with a couple  of the JV details.

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by KevL

[SamPlaysBass]

1 hour ago, KevL said:

JVs were recognised at the time as being good guitars (although not every one is outstanding, I've seen some with less-than-svelte cutaways, for example) and whilst they have always been respected and quietly-collectible, I think the increase in collectability - and, therefore, price - is really down to the internet.

This is precisely what I’m aiming for in this thread. The internet has a habit of saying ‘you MUST buy this’ - sometimes the people saying it have good reason to say it. The JV Squiers are great guitars (or mostly, as you pointed out KevL) but the internet has placed them on a pedestal. 
 

80s Japanese instrument in general are on the up. Is there anywhere else to look for a great quality instrument that will appreciate in value? 

[Cato]

 Might be worth keeping an eye on the new Vintera range.

I've just been looking at Vintera skiny string Jazzmasters on ebay and a fair few of them are listed at nearly $2000, approaching nearly double their original retail price.

Part of that will be because that particular model seems to have sold out world wide, but other second hand Vintera models such as Strats and Teles seem to be going for close to their original retail value.

 It'll be interesting to see what prices for first generation Vintera instruments do in the future.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Cato

[nige1968]

Mexican Road Worns

(I can remember paying £199 new for a JV Squier, when US Fenders were ~£300. So the price difference is similar).

Edited December 16, 2020 by nige1968

[King Tut]

32 minutes ago, nige1968 said:

Mexican Road Worns

Particularly those that came out before the Pao Ferro fingerboards. I'm not saying they're better but they might be perceived to be. Says he, hoping his first run Flea Sig that he bought as an 'investment' rockets in value!

Edited December 16, 2020 by King Tut

[joeystrange]

The Tom DeLonge Gibson ES 333 has been out of production for a decade and has been steadily going up in price for the last few years. Now they easily sell for £5000+.

As they were discontinued last year the Epiphone version is now selling for well over £1000 too.

[LukeFRC]

9 hours ago, KevL said:

They were made to a high standard in terms of materials (good wood was the norm, US pickups, decent hardware etc)

Here’s a good example of why JVs are well regarded too - mythology 
as far as I know it was only the first batch of strays that got US pickups. All the rest were Japanese. Which isn’t a problem in my book, but you can see loads of domestic late serial number JV guitars sold claiming to have US hardwear and pickups. 
with mythologising it’s also got “JV” being known with the division between domestic and export models being blurred.

that said JV squiers are great instruments. The early Fender logo Squier series ones are genuine collectors items as there were so few made- so the scarcity has driven the price of them up a load- and then if a fender logo Squier series  one is selling at £1k, why would a Squier logo One made the next week be worth £300 still?

also the context of fender prices has gone up massively across the board recently. If a Late 70s P bass is selling for £2k and early 70s for £3k and CBS era 60s refinished For £3.5-4.5k ... why shouldn’t a great Fender bass from the 1982-3 made in Japan make £1k? 

[Pow_22]

28 minutes ago, joeystrange said:

The Tom DeLonge Gibson ES 333 has been out of production for a decade and has been steadily going up in price for the last few years. Now they easily sell for £5000+.

As they were discontinued last year the Epiphone version is now selling for well over £1000 too.

I snapped one up a few weeks ago for £350 inc case.  You see the prices on Facebook/ebay that people are asking and its crazy.  Look at sold items on ebay for a more true reflection on price.  Great guitars but wouldnt pay more than £400 for a decent one

[hubrad]

USA Peavey.. obviously the T40 is the well known model, but the more basic models are excellent workhorses. I picked up a Predator (Str@t type) a couple of years back, and love its feel; the weak link was the pickups, but that's one of those things we all swap around anyway! Cost me just over a ton, so if I can retire on the proceeds that'll do nicely.

[uk_lefty]

9 hours ago, SamPlaysBass said:

80s Japanese instrument in general are on the up. Is there anywhere else to look for a great quality instrument that will appreciate in value? 

I don't know if it's because of the Basschat and Facebook group influence (I'm a member of the Aria SB Facebook group) but Westone basses and Aria SBs seem to have rocketed in price in the last few years. Again, I think enthusiasts like to talk up the virtues but once you put something out there on ebay you really see the value, or indeed whether the market wants it at all! 

For lefties it's even harder. There's a gorgeous fretless Ibanez that's been on ebay for months. It didn't sell at 600 quid, I was tempted but could not justify it, and now it's at £1,200 or nearest offer. Have been tempted to message and say "I'll offer you £500 because you couldn't offload it at 600 a few months ago!". If this bass were right handed I think 600 quid would have been a very good deal.