Broughton Audio: HPF + LPF + mids... I WANT ONE!

[mcnach]

Of course it's out of stock (more in January), but this looks great!

https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/resonant-filter-equalizer

I wish the LPF could get a bit lower (I have one that goes down to 145 Hz and while it's not an everyday sound, it has surprisingly a lot of good uses at the very low end, although I'd typically set it somewhere higher than 300 Hz so the Broughton unit would be fine), but having both HPF and LPF in one pedal, plus the semiparametric mids to tweak the note definition just so... I can see myself getting a lot of mileage out of this.  

[Al Krow]

Seems to be looking to do a different job from typical HPFs which provide a -12dB / octave (or ideally -24dB / octave) cut.

This has a much more restricted -3dB cut for the HPF and LPF.  Intriguing.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[mcnach]

50 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Seems to be looking to do a different job from typical HPFs which provide a -12dB / octave (or ideally -24dB / octave) cut.

This has a much more restricted -3dB cut for the HPF and LPF.  Intriguing.

 

The slope is -12db/octave according to the blurb.

It's a bit shallower than what I'd prefer, but the combination looks really neat in a single pedal format. I have not experimented with any HPF that has a slope shallower than -24db/octave so I can't say how much/little I'd notice it but I think it'll do the job that I want: tightening the low end a bit. It's the adjustable LPF (I came late to the party but once I started experimenting with them I can't imagine how I managed this long without) with the additional tweakability on the mids that really attract me to this unit. The HPF even if a bit shallower than ideal looks like it would be very useful in combination.

I just wish it had a level control too, as once you start removing frequencies it's easy to have a noticeable drop in volume. Right now I have a pedal made by SFX that combines an adjustable LPF (two ranges, actually: 45-500 Hz or 145-1600 Hz) with a Thumpinator (fixed HPF at 30 Hz), which also has a level control. In my opinion it's needed in a unit like this. It's not a deal breaker for the Broughton RFE as there are ways around that, but I wish they had added one.

[Al Krow]

Interesting - must admit I'm still a little confused by his numbering system of -15 to +15 for the para mids vs -3 to +15 for the HPF and LPF then, but I was just going from the pedal markings whereas you and Mr Lukin are a step ahead of me and have delved more deeply into the blurb.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

-3 is essentially 'off'. A HPF at 80hz will actually be reducing 80hz by 3db, and a little higher to lesser degrees, due to the inherent 'curve' of the filter. 3db is just the standard way to measure it. So -3 means no resonance, and technically it will provide 18db of boost around the cutoff. The mids are much simpler- 15db cut or boost.

The -3 three thing is more accurate, but not very intuitive. 0 to +18 might have been clearer... but -3 pleases the more pedantic among us! 😄

So to summarise for my simpler understanding of these things: we're still getting -12db/octave cut below the HPF threshold and the same above the LPF threshold but overlaid on this is a 0 to 18 gain for either/both and that gain is centred at the HPF and LPF cut-off thresholds?

Edited December 19, 2020 by Al Krow

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

Cool - well now that we've got that sorted 😁, it does look like a significantly souped-up version of his HPF / LPF with individual gain knobs rather than a global single "make-up gain" (using compression terminology) knob. And given that it's $180 vs $165 and shipping will be the same and seems to have the same footprint from the pics - the newer model is definitely the more attractive option!

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Al Krow

[Lozz196]

I think I’ll keep my eyes open for when these come back in stock, looks like a great but of kit.

[mcnach]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting - must admit I'm still a little confused by his numbering system of -15 to +15 for the para mids vs -3 to +15 for the HPF and LPF then, but I was just going from the pedal markings whereas you and Mr Lukin are a step ahead of me and have delved more deeply into the blurb.

 

It's useful sometimes to RTFM

But I can understand the confusion. The -3/+15 is nothing to do with the slop, but rather what happens to the 'bit just after the cut off frequency' (technical AF), which can be boosted with that control. It's a pretty interesting kind of filter, on paper, I have never tried one like that.  

[mcnach]

7 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

I was thinking of drawing them out in pencil, but these are nicked off Google...

Here's the minus three thing:

And this is a way to visualise the resonant filter:

 Of course amplitude, and the shape of the curves can vary depending on the design or settings.

 

Beautifully explained, thanks!!

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, mcnach said:

It's a pretty interesting kind of filter, on paper, I have never tried one like that.  

Having got my head around Josh's counterintuitive labelling and a better idea of what it does, I guess I've rapidly gone in the other direction as it's basically his HPF / LPF pedal with a variable mid EQ.

Useful? For sure - particularly if you don't have an HPF (I already do in the shape of my Thumpinator and both my multifx's). Interesting? Not particularly.

I'll leave you good folk to part with your cash; I'll be keeping my wallet closed for this one 😉

[Hooch]

Got one, always-on on my pedalboard. It not only sweetens corners, removing mud and fizzy harshness, it's also a tone shaping tool. I believe being able to have a boost with a narrow Q on your cut-off frequency is a studio technique, which improves the slope effect. This in a pedal is just great. His HPF/LPF is super nice, but a very different beast IME.

[mcnach]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Having got my head around Josh's counterintuitive labelling and a better idea of what it does, I guess I've rapidly gone in the other direction as it's basically his HPF / LPF pedal with a variable mid EQ.

Useful? For sure - particularly if you don't have an HPF (I already do in the shape of my Thumpinator and both my multifx's). Interesting? Not particularly.

I'll leave you good folk to part with your cash; I'll be keeping my wallet closed for this one 😉

 

Well, you can't possibly buy every single pedal that comes out

For me it comes at a good time: over the past few years I've come to realise that my favourite tonal shaping options would be a LPF and semiparametric mids, none of that bass/mids/treble nonsense 😛 so if I can get my hands on one, it'll probably replace my SFX unit (although the LPF goes very low on the SFX and I find it very useful, it makes my bass playing sound a lot better than it is for some dub style material I play, almost studio recording quality)  

Edited December 20, 2020 by mcnach

[mcnach]

12 hours ago, Hooch said:

Got one, always-on on my pedalboard. It not only sweetens corners, removing mud and fizzy harshness, it's also a tone shaping tool. I believe being able to have a boost with a narrow Q on your cut-off frequency is a studio technique, which improves the slope effect. This in a pedal is just great. His HPF/LPF is super nice, but a very different beast IME.

 

Indeed, the ability to bump the threshold frequency can be very interesting.

I realised now that I guess I sort of do something like that often with my Mesa D800+, I 'discovered' by accident that setting up the HPF threshold a bit higher than I would normally and boosting the bass EQ at the same time produces what seems to be a similar bump, which does wonders for the bass sound I go for: definitely fat, but with definition and no mush. I thought I had discovered something cool and then I was told that it's a very common technique

 

 

[Hooch]

Yeah, you get these tight but fat lows and can tune them to your room. Combined with the semi-parametric mids, which are just great, you get a pretty unique pedal which is a filtering but also a powerful EQing tool. As for EQing, i quite like being able to shape my high and low mids differently, which Broughton Messenger does brilliantly, but RFE paired with a nice tube preamp get me this too. 

Sorry i'm kind of a fanboy of Josh's work, but he builds some pretty interesting bass-friendly stuff. Lunchbox SSDI and P-15 are pure magic ime.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Hooch]

Yeah the Messenger is now updated in a more compact version, with some added features and some you don't get anymore. I prefer his previous version (as for features, didn't tried the latest one). Best transparent preamp in a pedal format i'm aware of. Thing is his new small batches releases are quite hard to purchase, they're gone within seconds. You can play this game, wait for 2nd hand, or wait flavour of the month is on something else. Atm the Monocomp is available, it's a great opto-comp when fed with 12-18V to my ears, got one, it's pretty killer. Wouldn't sleep on it, when they're gone, it's too late !

[krispn]

4 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

Indeed, the ability to bump the threshold frequency can be very interesting.

I realised now that I guess I sort of do something like that often with my Mesa D800+, I 'discovered' by accident that setting up the HPF threshold a bit higher than I would normally and boosting the bass EQ at the same time produces what seems to be a similar bump, which does wonders for the bass sound I go for: definitely fat, but with definition and no mush. I thought I had discovered something cool and then I was told that it's a very common technique

 

 

Yeah it was something I picked up in getting into more studio based stuff/eq geekdom. I had a Noble for a while and cutting the lows with the low cut switch but then boosting lows appeared to shift the cutoff bump and made for a really nice low end - certainly cutting but giving enough of a boost at the ‘new cutoff frequency’ point post shift to where it tamed but musical. 
 

@mcnach I’m not sure if you tried the Broughton HPF/LPF when I had it but this does appear to be a great refinement to what was already a useful pedal. I did loan it out to a few fellow BC’ers but not all of them were in a position to appreciate the function of the pedal back then inspite of becoming somewhat ‘expert’ since. Once we figure out these things they can be very useful tools especially the ‘soft knee minus three’ rule which is how I came to remember what the diagrams posted above were showing. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by krispn

[mcnach]

15 hours ago, krispn said:

Yeah it was something I picked up in getting into more studio based stuff/eq geekdom. I had a Noble for a while and cutting the lows with the low cut switch but then boosting lows appeared to shift the cutoff bump and made for a really nice low end - certainly cutting but giving enough of a boost at the ‘new cutoff frequency’ point post shift to where it tamed but musical. 
 

@mcnach I’m not sure if you tried the Broughton HPF/LPF when I had it but this does appear to be a great refinement to what was already a useful pedal. I did loan it out to a few fellow BC’ers but not all of them were in a position to appreciate the function of the pedal back then inspite of becoming somewhat ‘expert’ since. Once we figure out these things they can be very useful tools especially the ‘soft knee minus three’ rule which is how I came to remember what the diagrams posted above were showing. 

 

No, I never tried your pedal, but I've been into HPF and LPF filters for a bit. I was finally about to order the Broughton one a few months back, but a chat with SFX made me get a unit from him instead (it was available immediately). 

 

[Al Krow]

21 hours ago, mcnach said:

Indeed, the ability to bump the threshold frequency can be very interesting.

I realised now that I guess I sort of do something like that often with my Mesa D800+, I 'discovered' by accident that setting up the HPF threshold a bit higher than I would normally and boosting the bass EQ at the same time produces what seems to be a similar bump, which does wonders for the bass sound I go for: definitely fat, but with definition and no mush. I thought I had discovered something cool and then I was told that it's a very common technique

I did clock you really liking the result of boosting the bass EQ whilst engaging the HPF on your Mesa D800+ a while back. And this seems, from the discussion above, to be a really good "take-away" point. If I recall correctly (without RTFM at this time of the morning when I should be working 😁) the Mesa bass EQ is centred at 80 Hz? Out of interest, how much were you dialling up the bass EQ by?

[mcnach]

23 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I did clock you really liking the result of boosting the bass EQ whilst engaging the HPF on your Mesa D800+ a while back. And this seems, from the discussion above, to be a really good "take-away" point. If I recall correctly (without RTFM at this time of the morning when I should be working 😁) the Mesa bass EQ is centred at 80 Hz? Out of interest, how much were you dialling up the bass EQ by?

 

Uf, you have me for a more technical guy than I am: I am more 'a bit of sugar' than '12g of sugar' when it comes to bass (but sweet nonetheless if you're nice to me  ).

But from what I recall, the Mesa D800+ bass control is centered at 40 Hz. How much would I boost normally? It varies, I find it's generally a balancing act between the bass EQ control and the variable HPF and it can depend on the place I'm playing at, but usually the bass control would be turned up to around 1 o'clock or so (not a lot, but noticeable). Sometimes more, but not often. I would first boost bass a bit, then turn the HPF until it starts thinning the sound too much, and back off a bit. Then just listen to the mix and see if it needs more of a bump or less.

My EQ usage is pretty sparse, both on the amp itself and on my bass, I seem to get where I want mostly through the HPF/BassEQ/voicing controls on the amp, and anything else will be treated as an 'effect' (for specific songs). I'd use the LPF gently to reduce the top end, resulting in a smoother tone, but sometimes you want more presence, and others just a very bottom-heavy sound....

[Al Krow]

Thanks  

40 Hz is quite a low Bass EQ centre point - same as on the Markbass LM2/3. Interested that Mesa went for this on the new series - they had it at 55 Hz on the Carbine series (I've got the M6) and have a very sophisticated EQ just on the bass control, which effectively includes an HPF in the cut:

The BASS control is actually a gain and frequency control all rolled into one with the Q center at 55Hz and harmonics in both low and high directions are affected because of its broader band nature. As the control is increased past 12 noon there is a 6db per octave rise in gain with the frequency topping out at 321Hz. With 12 noon straight-up representing “flat” (a no boost/no cut setting). As the BASS control is dialled below 12 noon, 55Hz and all associated harmonics are reduced and eventually notched completely out of the signal. Conversely, there is a 6db per octave cut beginning at 55Hz going down to 20Hz where the shelving ends with a cut gain of -20db as the control approaches 7:30pm (off).

PS In terms of what you're doing it seems to me you're therefore boosting at 40 Hz centre with the result that most significant cut from your HPF will be 30Hz and below i.e. effectively clearing out low end crud. That's pretty similar to the job that my Thumpinator is doing.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Al Krow