Buying from EU private sellers - 20% VAT from 1 Jan 2021

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

For benefit of doubt my previous post is based on the duty on guitars quoted previously in this thread and the information in the quoted Guardian article 

We'll know more once a few instruments have crossed the Channel. I can wait. 

[Al Krow]

@LukeFRC

I think it's slightly simpler than you've stated as there is going to be no customs duties on trade in goods between the UK and EU, due to the trade deal just struck.

See my OP for a summary that deals with a 'Thomann' type purchase (i.e. from a commercial retailer) and from a private seller.

[toneknob]

Blue passports though

 

[Basinski]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@LukeFRC

I think it's slightly simpler than you've stated as there is going to be no customs duties on trade in goods between the UK and EU, due to the trade deal just struck.

See my OP for a summary that deals with a 'Thomann' type purchase (i.e. from a commercial retailer) and from a private seller.

There will be VAT payable though at our 20% rate, plus a handling charge to the courier. That’s not something that’s applicable at the moment on used items. The government advice is here, it’s also quoted in the Guardian article.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bringing-goods-into-great-britain-from-outside-the-uk-from-1-january-2021

Edited December 28, 2020 by Basinski

[Pseudonym]

14 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

I think that there are very few folks here that are not aware that changes are afoot.

I think that there are very few folks here that know what those changes will be.

Speculation is of little value, and often (too often..?) sparks acrimonious conflict. We don't want that.

Well, it is of course entirely your decision. I don't have a horse in this race; I stopped buying anything from the UK more than two years ago precisely because of the chronic uncertainty and vagueness of likely regulations. (Were it otherwise, I'd own a Status instead of a Warwick!)

It is worth bearing in mind, perhaps, that this is a large world in which not everyone has been preoccupied with internecine disagreements within or involving the UK. Alerting potential buyers to the simple fact that things are changing might be in the interests of Basschat (which hosts the marketplace). I'd want to cover myself, but then I'm a ghastly American these days.

Happy new year, Dad and others. Let's hope this nonsense gets settled for once and for all during our lifetimes.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Basinski said:

There will be VAT payable though at our 20% rate, plus a handling charge to the courier. That’s not something that’s applicable at the moment on used items. The government advice is here, it’s also quoted in the Guardian article.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bringing-goods-into-great-britain-from-outside-the-uk-from-1-january-2021

Yes agreed.

(Please also refer to my OP which states exactly that).

Edited December 28, 2020 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

I stopped buying anything from the UK more than two years ago...

Sadly I can see myself doing exactly the same with used bass gear purchases from the EU and just sticking to purchases from UK sellers going forward, to avoid the UK 20% VAT plus handling charges on used bass gear from the EU.

I've had several pedals sales to the EU over the past year - that will likely dry up too going forward. Why would anyone in the EU want to buy something from the UK if they can get it from another EU seller and avoid paying their local VAT rate plus handling charges?

I, for one, will certainly be making it clear on my sales ads so that potential buyers are aware of this point - frankly I'd rather lose a sale than see a fellow BC'er feeling they have been short changed.

I've just one 'significant' sales ad up at the moment and I've added this to my ad:

PLEASE NOTE: IF YOU ARE BUYING FROM OUTSIDE THE UK THEN LOCAL VAT RATES PLUS HANDLING CHARGES MAY APPLY - IN PARTICULAR FOR EU PURCHASERS FROM 1 JAN 2021

Edited December 28, 2020 by Al Krow

[Britsie]

I have just stopped looking at the adds on Basschat Marketplace...

[Doctor J]

Just browsing through ebay and they are applying import duty to items leaving the UK going to here in the sunny EU so, obviously, the same will apply for second-hand goods going the other way. Ah well, the FS section was beautiful while it lasted.

 

 

[Doctor J]

And it looks like it applies to items under £390 too

[LukeFRC]

7 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

And it looks like it applies to items under £390 too

that looks like Ebay finding a way to take a cut

 

[Al Krow]

The £390 "duty free allowance" only applies when you personally bring stuff back from your trips abroad. It doesn't apply to items posted from abroad. That hasn't changed. 

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Just browsing through ebay and they are applying import duty to items leaving the UK going to here in the sunny EU so, obviously, the same will apply for second-hand goods going the other way. Ah well, the FS section was beautiful while it lasted.

Surely there’s already enough gear in the UK?

Edited December 29, 2020 by chris_b

[Doctor J]

6 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

that looks like Ebay finding a way to take a cut

 

Ebay have had the Global Shipping Program for years. Essentially, you pay the import duty to them and they pay The Man, rather than you paying the courier or the Post Office. Either way, you pay. It is used, in this case, to simply illustrate that import duty is being charged for second-hand goods moving between the EU and UK.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Doctor J

[Reggaebass]

I can’t see anything on reverb about fees from abroad, unless I’ve missed it,  or do you think they would be added on at the checkout 

[Doctor J]

If Reverb don't have something like the Global Shipping Program set up then you will pay the courier when it arrives in your country.

[taunton-hobbit]

13 hours ago, toneknob said:

Blue passports though

 

Printed in France, I believe ?

(no irony there, then)

😎

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Ebay have had the Global Shipping Program for years. Essentially, you pay the import duty to them and they pay The Man, rather than you paying the courier or the Post Office. Either way, you pay. It is used, in this case, to simply illustrate that import duty is being charged for second-hand goods moving between the EU and UK.

But how do you then prove that the duty has been paid at the point of shipping? 

I buy a lot of good from the UK which I have delivered to my UK based forward shipper, who then puts them in their lorry and delivers them to me in Bulgaria. 

How the hell is that gonna work now, when the forward shipper had no idea of what's in my parcels or what the value of the goods is? 

 

[Doctor J]

As far as I'm aware, with the Global Shipping Program, you ship the item to a local ebay hub who ship it on to the recipient. At least, the last thing I received through it had been shipped to an ebay address first, as I found when peeling off the shipping labels. As ebay are then the ones shipping into the destination country, they pay the duty at that point. It's not perfect, I suppose but, as a buyer, it is nice to know the final cost when you're buying rather than an educated guess until the postie arrives with an invoice.

[Graham]

9 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

But how do you then prove that the duty has been paid at the point of shipping? 

I buy a lot of good from the UK which I have delivered to my UK based forward shipper, who then puts them in their lorry and delivers them to me in Bulgaria. 

How the hell is that gonna work now, when the forward shipper had no idea of what's in my parcels or what the value of the goods is? 

 

The commercial invoice will state the incoterms the goods have been shipped under, if it's something like DDP, where the duty is paid upfront then I believe the courier will pay the duty and back-charge you the shipper.

If it's something like CPT terms, then the responsibility for taxes and duties lie with the importer.

[Steve Browning]

6 minutes ago, Graham said:

The commercial invoice will state the incoterms the goods have been shipped under, if it's something like DDP, where the duty is paid upfront then I believe the courier will pay the duty and back-charge you the shipper.

If it's something like CPT terms, then the responsibility for taxes and duties lie with the importer.

The shipper will produce the commercial invoice and either you will be charged directly (if you are he importer of record) or you will be charged by the shipper, for reimbursement of the various import charges. I would guess you fall under the latter camp.

You need to check the incoterms of your agreement with your supplier. It is possible they are not mentioned, of course.

[Newfoundfreedom]

11 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

The shipper will produce the commercial invoice and either you will be charged directly (if you are he importer of record) or you will be charged by the shipper, for reimbursement of the various import charges. I would guess you fall under the latter camp.

You need to check the incoterms of your agreement with your supplier. It is possible they are not mentioned, of course.

But none of that will even exist in the case of a second hand eBay purchase, where the seller is essentially selling within the UK. My shipper would then get a parcel in my name, with no information to as to what it contains or what the value is. Making it impossible to do any kind of customs declaration. 

The whole thing is an absolute mess and will essentially put companies like this out of business, and make goods far more expensive for everyone else. 

Bloody genius! 

[LukeFRC]

Just now, Newfoundfreedom said:

But none of that will even exist in the case of a second hand eBay purchase, where the seller is essentially selling within the UK. My shipper would then get a parcel in my name, with no information to as to what it contains or what the value is. Making it impossible to do any kind of customs declaration. 

The whole thing is an absolute mess and will essentially put companies like this out of business, and make goods far more expensive for everyone else. 

Bloody genius! 

I don’t know why this would be difficult- you will have to give them a declaration of what they are shipping for you And value, they will then pay any Fees at the customs border and then charge you them before they release the goods to you.

possibly the best value for money is french or German Lessons and doing your shopping there!

 

[Al Krow]

Maybe only indirectly connected to our discussion on VAT, but if we had stayed in the Customs Union would VAT on private sales to/from the EU have been a non issue?

Leaving the Customs Union means we now have the freedom to lower import duties from the rest of the world, which is a good thing for UK consumers.

I must admit I was also unaware that 75% of customs duties the UK collected while it was part of the EU Customs Union were paid across to EU coffers. I guess I can see why the EU was pushing for us to remain in this - something new I've learned today! 

In theory, I presume we could rejoin the Customs Union at any point if we wanted to eg Turkey is a member, I believe, (although prevented from joining the EU, itself, by France who don't want the free movement implications). 

So if the costs of not being in the Customs Union outweigh the benefits, this should theoretically be relatively easily reversed down the line. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

14 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I don’t know why this would be difficult- you will have to give them a declaration of what they are shipping for you And value, they will then pay any Fees at the customs border and then charge you them before they release the goods to you.

possibly the best value for money is french or German Lessons and doing your shopping there!

 

That's not how they work. Although they will probably have to change given the circumstances. They have no information on what you are shipping. Goods are just shipped to them at their address, with an account number which tells them where to send the parcel. They are, for all intents and purposes purely a mail forwarding company. There are no systems in place to tell them what is being sent or even when. Basically their whole business model is now null and void thanks to Brexshit, and having to deal with customs declarations etc, even if they can figure out how, will only increase the cost, which will have to be passed on to the customer. Making the savings I can currently make buying things from the UK null and void. Sadly I think they will end up being just another casualty of the Brexit vote.