Touring in the EU

[yorks5stringer]

I offer this with an uncharacteristic 'no further comment':

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/29/uk-performers-raise-alarm-as-brexit-deal-threatens-eu-touring

 

[Steve Browning]

21 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I offer this with an uncharacteristic 'no further comment':

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/29/uk-performers-raise-alarm-as-brexit-deal-threatens-eu-touring

 

... save for the tolling of a muffled bell.

[yorks5stringer]

4 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

... save for the tolling of a muffled bell.

....is that a bit like a Tubular Bell?

[Steve Browning]

1 minute ago, yorks5stringer said:

....is that a bit like a Tubular Bell?

No it bl00dy isn't. I hate that record with a passion!!!! 🙂

[Doctor J]

This is what the people wanted. Consider control taken back.

[yorks5stringer]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

No it bl00dy isn't. I hate that record with a passion!!!! 🙂

Jingle bell? Ring my bell? Bell Bottom Blues? Hells Bells? Pavlov's Bell? Morning Bell?  I'm here all week unless I go on Tour....

[Burns-bass]

28 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

This is what the people wanted. Consider control taken back.

Such a shame. Our creative industries are a multitude larger than our fishing industry. 

[Lozz196]

I can see this thread heading in one non-European direction....

[odysseus]

You mean a blue passport doesn't solve this? Ye gods.... 

[meterman]

Most of my best paid work in the last 10 years has taken place in the EU, probably by pure luck more than anything else, and I think it would be a massive shame if UK acts were priced / carnet-ed / visa’d out of doing a run of European gigs. Apart from function gigs in the UK, it was always the European ones where me and the guys would get paid decent money and get really well looked after. Audiences round Europe have often been great as well, really up for it. We’ve got to at least get visa-free travel for UK artists to make it worthwhile. Unless you actually are an established top tier act, but even so...  
 

[Stingray5]

So long.... and thanks for all the fish! (Not!)  

[Steve Browning]

29 minutes ago, meterman said:

Most of my best paid work in the last 10 years has taken place in the EU, probably by pure luck more than anything else, and I think it would be a massive shame if UK acts were priced / carnet-ed / visa’d out of doing a run of European gigs. Apart from function gigs in the UK, it was always the European ones where me and the guys would get paid decent money and get really well looked after. Audiences round Europe have often been great as well, really up for it. We’ve got to at least get visa-free travel for UK artists to make it worthwhile. Unless you actually are an established top tier act, but even so...  
 

It's the carnet that kills it, I fear.

[yorks5stringer]

1 hour ago, Stingray5 said:

So long.... and thanks for all the fish! (Not!)  

I hear Marillion stopped touring the EU in 1988

[meterman]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

It's the carnet that kills it, I fear.

You might be right. I remember playing in Germany and the Netherlands pre-92 and the carnet system was a pain, even just with taking the most minimal gear. I’m an old git though, so I’ve had a decent run of it. It’s the nippers just starting out who might be the ones to really miss out.

[petebassist]

There is a petition that aims to get this debated in Parliament. I don't expect that the over-privileged toffs in power give two hoots about this issue, but at least this might put some pressure on.

 

Seek Europe-wide Visa-free work permit for Touring professionals and Artists

We would like the UK Govt to negotiate a free cultural work permit that gives us visa free travel throughout the 27 EU states for music touring professionals, bands, musicians, artists, TV and sports celebrities that tour the EU to perform shows and events & Carnet exception for touring equipment.

More details

The UK has a huge music / event touring industry which has suffered immensely due to Covid. After the end of the transition period, we face further hardship when trying to tour the EU on a professional basis, with potentially each country asking for its own visa, that would be valid only for one trip, As a freelancer I and many like me travel through the EU countless times a year on different tours and events, this will become impossible due to cost and time if we do not have visa free travel.

To sign up, you can go here: 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/563294

 

[Stingray5]

54 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I hear Marillion stopped touring the EU in 1988

Yep, I think that's correct, although my own lot (Landmarq) did support them in Holland back in 1998 for one of their fan convention gigs (Tivoli Theatre, Utrecht, NL). Later tours 2001 onwards saw them doing European gigs again.

[silverfoxnik]

11 hours ago, petebassist said:

There is a petition that aims to get this debated in Parliament. I don't expect that the over-privileged toffs in power give two hoots about this issue, but at least this might put some pressure on.

 

Seek Europe-wide Visa-free work permit for Touring professionals and Artists

We would like the UK Govt to negotiate a free cultural work permit that gives us visa free travel throughout the 27 EU states for music touring professionals, bands, musicians, artists, TV and sports celebrities that tour the EU to perform shows and events & Carnet exception for touring equipment.

More details

The UK has a huge music / event touring industry which has suffered immensely due to Covid. After the end of the transition period, we face further hardship when trying to tour the EU on a professional basis, with potentially each country asking for its own visa, that would be valid only for one trip, As a freelancer I and many like me travel through the EU countless times a year on different tours and events, this will become impossible due to cost and time if we do not have visa free travel.

To sign up, you can go here: 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/563294

 

I have already signed this in the hope that it might at least get well debated in parliament...

Before then being completely ignored by this hapless government, as is their usual way of responding to any other point of view outside of their own, very narrow one. 

The creative arts in the UK are being destroyed through things like this and Covid whilst BoJo murders a few Vera Lynn tunes on his fiddle (emphasis on the word fiddle of course).. 

 

[King Tut]

12 hours ago, yorks5stringer said:

I hear Marillion stopped touring the EU in 1988

I see what you did there!

[dudewheresmybass]

The last time I looked, the total was well over the number required to trigger a parliamentary debate

[bassbiscuits]

Signed and shared with all musician friends. 

[Stingray5]

20 hours ago, yorks5stringer said:

I hear Marillion stopped touring the EU in 1988

 

7 hours ago, King Tut said:

I see what you did there!

DOH! Aren't I a silly billy! 🙄🤪

[Monkey Steve]

Without trying to steer this into a political debate, as I understand it, all  the restrictions come from the EU side, and they dug their heels in during the trade negotiations.  Parliament can debate it for as long as it wants but it's not in their power to change this

[Steve Browning]

1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

Without trying to steer this into a political debate, as I understand it, all  the restrictions come from the EU side, and they dug their heels in during the trade negotiations.  Parliament can debate it for as long as it wants but it's not in their power to change this

That can only be said by any impartial folk who were there. 

Any deviation would require both the UK and EU governments to agree. 

[ambient]

50 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

Without trying to steer this into a political debate, as I understand it, all  the restrictions come from the EU side, and they dug their heels in during the trade negotiations.  Parliament can debate it for as long as it wants but it's not in their power to change this

It’s more to do with the UK ending FoM for its citizens - it hasn’t ended for citizens of the other EU countries. Their citizens still have the right to live, work, travel and retire to thirty odd other countries. 

The deal that’s just been signed allows for some people to work within the EU without having to obtain an often costly work permit. This is mostly for people working in technical fields though, it doesn’t allow those in the creative industries, neither does it allow for academic staff to travel to work or to conferences etc, so I’m caught both ways. In the past two years for instance I’ve performed and done academic work - talks etc in Paris, Netherlands and Sweden. That won’t be possible without a work permit, these are obtained per country, it's not possible to obtain one permit or visa that’ll allow you to work across the EU, so you need one for each visit. It just isn’t cost effective. My university’s music department has an expenses budget, it doesn’t stretch to the hundreds of pounds per person - KMH for instance in Stockholm last year, there were four of us there. 

There’s also other costs and paperwork to consider. Most artists/bands take merchandise with them, the sale of which helps pay for the tour. After Brexit you’ll have to pay VAT upfront on any merchandise, that’s on entry to each country. You claim this back on any unsold items when you return. It’s yet another expense though.

[Steve Browning]

6 minutes ago, ambient said:

It’s more to do with the UK ending FoM for its citizens - it hasn’t ended for citizens of the other EU countries. Their citizens still have the right to live, work, travel and retire to thirty odd other countries. 

The deal that’s just been signed allows for some people to work within the EU without having to obtain an often costly work permit. This is mostly for people working in technical fields though, it doesn’t allow those in the creative industries, neither does it allow for academic staff to travel to work or to conferences etc, so I’m caught both ways. In the past two years for instance I’ve performed and done academic work - talks etc in Paris, Netherlands and Sweden. That won’t be possible without a work permit, these are obtained per country, it's not possible to obtain one permit or visa that’ll allow you to work across the EU, so you need one for each visit. It just isn’t cost effective. My university’s music department has an expenses budget, it doesn’t stretch to the hundreds of pounds per person - KMH for instance in Stockholm last year, there were four of us there. 

There’s also other costs and paperwork to consider. Most artists/bands take merchandise with them, the sale of which helps pay for the tour. After Brexit you’ll have to pay VAT upfront on any merchandise, that’s on entry to each country. You claim this back on any unsold items when you return. It’s yet another expense though.

Spain and Bulgaria have nil VAT registration thresholds so selling just one CD in these countries requires you register for VAT there.