New Spector (Korea) models for 2021

[bagsieblue]

See how it unfolds........., my view is that the manufacturing tolerance of the pickup cavity location and the manufacturing tolerance of where the magnet actually sits inside the pickup leaves this teetering right on the edge giving an issue.

[Kev]

31 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

See how it unfolds........., my view is that the manufacturing tolerance of the pickup cavity location and the manufacturing tolerance of where the magnet actually sits inside the pickup leaves this teetering right on the edge giving an issue.

To be a Dingwall competitor, the worst thing it could have had was a weak B... Still find it hard to believe that this wasn’t picked up by them or any of the reviewers, hopefully it’s just that infrequent and it’s a vocal minority?  
 

Routing doesn’t look great either...

[bagsieblue]

2 hours ago, bagsieblue said:

....and here is one guys replacement (note replacement!), disappointing but unsurprisingly the same issue.

 

Video taken down after Spector agent and others convinced the guy that replacement is fine.

 

 

[Kev]

29 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

Video taken down after Spector agent and others convinced the guy that replacement is fine.

 

 

Seriously?

[bagsieblue]

2 minutes ago, Kev said:

Seriously?

Seriously.

[bagsieblue]

From the other place.

[cetera]

Tbh, I viewed the video and wasn't convinced there was a problem with his replacement either....

And I'm not just saying that as a 'fanboy'....

[bagsieblue]

I'm a Spector fan.

 It was clear to me in the videos that went up.  Not the best place to demonstrate and listen though granted - recorded through a phone (?) compressed on Youtube.....

Most comments are that it is much more apparent in a band environment.

The interesting thing is how polarising peoples views on this are.

I havent got a dog in this fight other than I was interested in picking one up.

[Kev]

1 hour ago, cetera said:

Tbh, I viewed the video and wasn't convinced there was a problem with his replacement either....

And I'm not just saying that as a 'fanboy'....

In the video @bagsieblue posted in here, it was clear as day, both in what you were hearing and what you were seeing on the compressor meter.  Significant volume loss on a string I usually find too loud if anything on my basses.

If they coerced someone with what sounds like some level of mental health struggle to take down a video criticising their product...well, that would be a thing, wouldn’t it?!!

[bagsieblue]

9 minutes ago, Kev said:

If they coerced someone with what sounds like some level of mental health struggle to take down a video criticising their product...well, that would be a thing, wouldn’t it?!!

It wasnt quite that in all fairness but I caught some of it (now deleted) and from what I saw it was a somewhat uncomfortable read.....maybe its your playing style, your compressor, the youtube video compression, the way the pickups work, the strings, the set up....

[cetera]

Update on pickup issue from a major distributor & respected Spector & Dingwall user/player in the States:

https://forum.fretnation.com/post/dimensions-and-fishman-fluence-pickups-11725548

[bagsieblue]

2 hours ago, cetera said:

Update on pickup issue from a major distributor & respected Spector & Dingwall user/player in the States:

https://forum.fretnation.com/post/dimensions-and-fishman-fluence-pickups-11725548

Ahh - that guy, - my opinion below.......

A Dingwall / Spector / Warwick .....Sales agent in the USA, lets says its not unreasonable to say motive on creating and protecting sales.

Respected  - no respect from me I'm afraid - quite the opposite for me I'm sorry to say -  given their comments that were made, amended and since deleted.  

There are dissenting voices on their (his) post already online  - will screenshot a couple below.

I saw comments on this theme beforehand on the thread and sound examples the guy reference above put up and deleted.

 It smacks of trying to create a story backwards to fit a narrative to me.

Once these basses are available freely in the UK - I will purchase online, test thoroughly on the basis that I can return under distance selling regulations.  Once that's done I'll report back.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by bagsieblue

[Kev]

It’s all a bit of a farce really.  Have Spector issued a press release about the issue?  I presume they must have somewhere, as opposed to just letting dealers do the defending?  Or perhaps Fishman?  Quick message from them confirming it’s a quirk of their pickup design would take the heat off of Spector.

Do the 4’s have the issue, or just the 5’s?

[HazBeen]

I am reading this with Interest. I just built a 5 string multiscale with the Fishman’s and used the Spector as a visual reference on how far I could go to the side of the pickup with my B.

My string specing is a little narrower than the Spectors, but my design benefitted from placing the pickups off centre a little.

Not noticed the weak B so far, but am trying it in anger with the band tonight. If I do have an issue, I have stuffed myself by using the Dimensions as a visual reference..... I have a fix if so, but man.

Will report back.

[bagsieblue]

5 hours ago, Kev said:

It’s all a bit of a farce really.  Have Spector issued a press release about the issue?  I presume they must have somewhere, as opposed to just letting dealers do the defending?  Or perhaps Fishman?  Quick message from them confirming it’s a quirk of their pickup design would take the heat off of Spector.

Do the 4’s have the issue, or just the 5’s?

It really is a shambles.

I don't think there has been anything official released by Spector/  Fishman.  

Just the 5s reported on, stringing a 4 as BEAD would be a good test.

[bagsieblue]

50 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

I am reading this with Interest. I just built a 5 string multiscale with the Fishman’s and used the Spector as a visual reference on how far I could go to the side of the pickup with my B.

My string specing is a little narrower than the Spectors, but my design benefitted from placing the pickups off centre a little.

Not noticed the weak B so far, but am trying it in anger with the band tonight. If I do have an issue, I have stuffed myself by using the Dimensions as a visual reference..... I have a fix if so, but man.

Will report back.

Interesting, looking forward to hearing back.

If this dealers theory is correct then less chance you need to worry about pickup placement but more about pickup height.

 

[HazBeen]

I just recorded this quickly (apologies for the sloppy playing). It is from a solo bass piece I am working on, this section covers all strings which seemed handy. Doesn't appear to be an issue with B string volume compared to other strings to my ears.

35.5" scale B, 33.5" scale G. No pan, flat eq, recorded via my Focusrite directly into Ableton Live with a Bass Amp and 4x10 plugin. 

The pickups are quite close to the strings (as I always have them really).

Fishman Flat No pan.wav

[bagsieblue]

2 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

I just recorded this quickly (apologies for the sloppy playing). It is from a solo bass piece I am working on, this section covers all strings which seemed handy. Doesn't appear to be an issue with B string volume compared to other strings to my ears.

35.5" scale B, 33.5" scale G. No pan, flat eq, recorded via my Focusrite directly into Ableton Live with a Bass Amp and 4x10 plugin. 

The pickups are quite close to the strings (as I always have them really).

Fishman Flat No pan.wav 6.02 MB · 0 downloads

Nice! - on this "onboard limiter" - can you replicate this?

Play softly, then louder and louder until the limiter kicks in?

[HazBeen]

Just now, bagsieblue said:

Nice! - on this "onboard limiter" - can you replicate this?

Play softly, then louder and louder until the limiter kicks in?

Sure, I will do it after my calls (working from home). I have a medium touch naturally, not the lightest but certainly not heavy either.

Will also update after tonight’s band practice of course.

As you can see my B string is as close to the edge as the Dimension.

 

[HazBeen]

So I did the B bend think (which should mean it gets louder when you bend) and the low B with increasing volume to get it to clip. I turned down the input level on my Focusrte to ensure input could not clip. Clearly there is some extra noise of muting and I need to do a final setup once the wood is settled but I think it is quite clear. 

No volume increase when bending, so it it is not a magentic field thing perse, I do very clearly see a difference in the levels when playing the B hard. You can almost literally see it clip, limiter kick in immediately and then release in waves. There is a certain wavyness in how the signal is released from the limiter. 

I bought the Fishman's based on internet reviews. If I had a hard touch and encountered this wavyness, I would be dissappointed I think. Clearly if that can be fixed by the correct setup for your touch, then no issue. To me it does appear to be the pickup/setup not the location of B string, which would sort of confirm what Spector is saying. Wonder if there are any Sheckter SLS owners out there who could confirm....

Thoughts?

Fishman B bend + limiter check.wav

[bagsieblue]

20 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

So I did the B bend think (which should mean it gets louder when you bend) and the low B with increasing volume to get it to clip. I turned down the input level on my Focusrte to ensure input could not clip. Clearly there is some extra noise of muting and I need to do a final setup once the wood is settled but I think it is quite clear. 

No volume increase when bending, so it it is not a magentic field thing perse, I do very clearly see a difference in the levels when playing the B hard. You can almost literally see it clip, limiter kick in immediately and then release in waves. There is a certain wavyness in how the signal is released from the limiter. 

I bought the Fishman's based on internet reviews. If I had a hard touch and encountered this wavyness, I would be dissappointed I think. Clearly if that can be fixed by the correct setup for your touch, then no issue. To me it does appear to be the pickup/setup not the location of B string, which would sort of confirm what Spector is saying. Wonder if there are any Sheckter SLS owners out there who could confirm....

Thoughts?

Fishman B bend + limiter check.wav 16.14 MB · 0 downloads

Great - thanks for the effort on this.

This just gets more and more interesting.

[Kev]

44 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

So I did the B bend think (which should mean it gets louder when you bend) and the low B with increasing volume to get it to clip. I turned down the input level on my Focusrte to ensure input could not clip. Clearly there is some extra noise of muting and I need to do a final setup once the wood is settled but I think it is quite clear. 

No volume increase when bending, so it it is not a magentic field thing perse, I do very clearly see a difference in the levels when playing the B hard. You can almost literally see it clip, limiter kick in immediately and then release in waves. There is a certain wavyness in how the signal is released from the limiter. 

I bought the Fishman's based on internet reviews. If I had a hard touch and encountered this wavyness, I would be dissappointed I think. Clearly if that can be fixed by the correct setup for your touch, then no issue. To me it does appear to be the pickup/setup not the location of B string, which would sort of confirm what Spector is saying. Wonder if there are any Sheckter SLS owners out there who could confirm....

Thoughts?

Fishman B bend + limiter check.wav 16.14 MB · 2 downloads

Nice one for going to the effort of recording that.  What a bizarre pickup design. 
 

To be honest though, I’m not sure this explains the issues away that I’ve heard with the Spectors? The limiter issue would not result in a generally quieter B string, more just quieter on initial attack?

[HazBeen]

46 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

Great - thanks for the effort on this.

This just gets more and more interesting.

Admittedly I was hesistant to go with Fishman as they were an unknown and I would normally have used EMG DCs for a bass like this one. If the B indeed clips “in the real world” when using in a band, then to be frank the pickups (although they sound great) are a bit stinky poo design wise. Perhaps this bass will end up with EMGs at some point....

[HazBeen]

25 minutes ago, Kev said:

Nice one for going to the effort of recording that.  What a bizarre pickup design. 
 

To be honest though, I’m not sure this explains the issues away that I’ve heard with the Spectors? The limiter issue would not result in a generally quieter B string, more just quieter on initial attack?

Depends, it looks graphically as if the limiter kicks in after the limit is reached, squeezes down hard and then releases. What Fishman may need to do is have  a quicker kick-in and faster release to sort out the wavy B if played hard and in any case Spector will need to give better instruction on the absolute necessity to have your bass setup in line with your playing style.

[HazBeen]

Okay, so I used the Fishmans in anger yesterday and listened to the band recording (I cannot post as it is not on my laptop). When you really dig in there does appear to be an audible limiting effect happening. The pickup design clearly is a bit quirky in the sense that very high amplitude/heavy input seems to overload the signal and the note loses weight due to the limiter. Much like D class power amp designs. Probably never an issue for guitars and 4 string basses, but not so on 5s.

Tone wise great pickups, and admittedly under normal circumstances my touch isn't heavy enough to trigger the limiter, but I have to admit I am a little uneasy on the Fishmans now. 

Clearly just an opinion/obervation from 1 person, but it does seem to be in line with some comments others have made.