Thomann prices?

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Very few small shops stock Gibson. I went in a lot during 2019, noticed this and that's how I found out what was happening.

One shop I've been visiting since at least 2017 used to have a whole wall of Epiphones and a few Gibsons, they didn't have a single new Gibson or Epiphone last few times I visited.

You need to up your chosen shop game. May I suggest a large international musical superstore... or Amazon? Plenty on there.

(I jest)

 

EDIT: I've just looked. Amazon aren't too hot on the Gibsons it would seem.

Edited January 11, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Stub Mandrel]

Actually visit: https://www.gibson.com/Find-A-Store
 

I found two Epiphone dealers who aren't Gibson stockists.

https://www.epiphone.com/Find-A-Store

if you discounted PMT or Guitar Guitar most regions would have virtually no Gibson/Epiphone dealers.

I found more Fender dealers across the UK,

https://shop.fender.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Fender-EMEA-Site/en_GB/Dealers-Results?locate=yes

There are THREE Gibson dealers inside the M25, TEN Fender dealers.

Four Fender in Glasgow, one Gibson.

The map doesn't give a result if you search for Squier dealers.

Clearly different policies in action, but if the 'minimum stock level' story I was told is true, then it seems Gibson effectively decided they didn't need local music shops.

 

[Newfoundfreedom]

Just goes to show that Gibson owners are far more discerning than those Fender commoners. 😉

[jrixn1]

I just added £29.80 of items to my Thomann basket.  There was then £8 shipping, so the checkout total was £37.80.  A message on that page said that the prices shown exclude VAT.

Their FAQ says that VAT will be added and charged by Thomann if the value is equal or less than £135; in these cases no additional fee will have to be paid upon delivery.  So I was expecting to pay £37.80 + 20%, which is £45.36.

I was however charged £43.76, which I have worked out is £29.80 + 20% (£35.76), plus the £8 shipping.  So there was no VAT on the shipping; is that correct?  I'll update if anything else happens.

 

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

...So there was no VAT on the shipping; is that correct?...

It could be due to currency fluctuations. 

[Steve Browning]

I think that is due to UK VAT being charged.  HMRC have said that there is no import VAT on these consignments and so Thomann must be importing in their name and charging local VAT. 

Seems they've got themselves well organised. 

[Stub Mandrel]

9 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

I was however charged £43.76, which I have worked out is £29.80 + 20% (£35.76), plus the £8 shipping.  So there was no VAT on the shipping; is that correct?

I imagine the shipping is a re-charge from the couriers to Thomann in Germany so isn't liable to UK tax.

[jrixn1]

Confirmation email received this morning suggests the £8 shipping already included VAT; i.e. it is really £6.67 + 20% (£1.33).
 

[Stub Mandrel]

26 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Confirmation email received this morning suggests the £8 shipping already included VAT; i.e. it is really £6.67 + 20% (£1.33).
 

Possibly the shipping is 'German VAT'

[Steve Browning]

I believe it is as I said, Thomann importing into the UK and selling within the UK. That is consistent with the HMC guidance published.

German VAT is 19%.

[EBS_freak]

On 11/01/2021 at 10:57, EBS_freak said:

Additionally, tricks like what Music Tribe are up to (Behringer) is not going to be helping. Similar Fender. They are basically cutting the small independents out.

It's as though I had a magic crystal ball.

https://community.musictribe.com/discussions/178490/309762/thomann-and-music-tribe-to-enter-super-partner-relationship

Edited January 12, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Kev]

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

Confirmation email received this morning suggests the £8 shipping already included VAT; i.e. it is really £6.67 + 20% (£1.33).
 

It appears Thomann adding UK VAT to any order up to £135 in line with the new rules, after which they are selling ex-vat.

Interesting contrast with Musik Productiv.

I have orders in with both, so we shall see what happens!

[PaulThePlug]

Stewblack / Thomann (aka Harley Benton...) / Behringer to enter a Super Partner Relation.

The focus of this Super Partner relationship is to deliver an obsessive Customer Experience.

😉

Edited January 12, 2021 by PaulThePlug

[EBS_freak]

18 minutes ago, Kev said:

It appears Thomann adding UK VAT to any order up to £135 in line with the new rules, after which they are selling ex-vat.

Interesting contrast with Musik Productiv.

I have orders in with both, so we shall see what happens!

I suspect it won't be long until Musik Productiv UK returns as a registered UK company... unless they aren't bothered with the UK.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, PaulThePlug said:

The focus of this Super Partner relationship is to deliver an obsessive Customer Experience.

😉

It's hilarious isn't it?

Nothing to do with the effort of dealing with the great unwashed at all. As I say, ease of shifting boxes.

[paul_c2]

It depends though. Maybe I'm a bit weird but I don't buy a new bass every 5 minutes. A (bass) guitar or an amp is something personal and individual, so you'd probably want the experience of trying it out, maybe talking with a shop keeper, pondering over it etc before purchase. You'd want a proper brick-n-mortar shop for this.

BUT there's many things which aren't the same, they are boxed items which are either big brands (Shure, NI, Alto, Yamaha etc) or small/cheap items like leads or mic stands or other accessories. And these days, you don't need to seek advice from a music shop keeper (will their advice be impartial anyway), there's loads of online discussion and reviews. In this instance, why is it unreasonable if the customer wants a good price? Certainly with branded/packaged items the same thing will be offered by all retailers. Also why is it unreasonable to ask for short delivery time?

[stewblack]

20 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

It depends though. Maybe I'm a bit weird but I don't buy a new bass every 5 minutes. A (bass) guitar or an amp is something personal and individual, so you'd probably want the experience of trying it out, maybe talking with a shop keeper, pondering over it etc before purchase. You'd want a proper brick-n-mortar shop for this.

BUT there's many things which aren't the same, they are boxed items which are either big brands (Shure, NI, Alto, Yamaha etc) or small/cheap items like leads or mic stands or other accessories. And these days, you don't need to seek advice from a music shop keeper (will their advice be impartial anyway), there's loads of online discussion and reviews. In this instance, why is it unreasonable if the customer wants a good price? Certainly with branded/packaged items the same thing will be offered by all retailers. Also why is it unreasonable to ask for short delivery time?

Great post. 

[BigRedX]

The current import situation harking back to the bad old days of the 70s has left me wondering two things:

1. Will there be a return of "grey imports" for items from big-name musical instrument manufacturers?

2. What will the 20s equivalent be of all those shops selling "import" records - the ones with a corner cut off the sleeve and an extra hole punched through the centre?

[jrixn1]

On 12/01/2021 at 00:36, jrixn1 said:

I just added £29.80 of items to my Thomann basket.  There was then £8 shipping, so the checkout total was £37.80.  A message on that page said that the prices shown exclude VAT.

Their FAQ says that VAT will be added and charged by Thomann if the value is equal or less than £135; in these cases no additional fee will have to be paid upon delivery.  So I was expecting to pay £37.80 + 20%, which is £45.36.

I was however charged £43.76, which I have worked out is £29.80 + 20% (£35.76), plus the £8 shipping.  So there was no VAT on the shipping; is that correct?  I'll update if anything else happens.

 

Confirming my £44 order placed a week ago was delivered today with no signs of any extra fees.

[Woodinblack]

13 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Confirming my £44 order placed a week ago was delivered today with no signs of any extra fees.

Guess it is going to be like ordering from the states - sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Maybe they are overwhelmed at the moment!

[jrixn1]

Sure; just to clarify, I don't think I slipped through the net.  My understanding before I placed the order is that I wasn't expecting any extra fees, since my order total was below the £135 threshold and therefore I'd already paid the VAT directly to Thomann.

[Kev]

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

Confirming my £44 order placed a week ago was delivered today with no signs of any extra fees.

Interesting, my order on 11th is still in Germany, and has not cleared the border yet if the tracking is accurate.

Another order with Musik-Productiv was dispatched on 8th, and cleared customs in Germany on Monday, but is yet to arrive.

Based on advice from both companies, I'm not expecting any import charges; Thomann order was under £135, and Musik-Productive are using UPS as a customs broker on a DDP service, so all their prices include all tax and customs fees.

We shall see, but certainly curious as to the speed of your Thomann delivery compared to mine??

[wambamalubop]

45 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Sure; just to clarify, I don't think I slipped through the net.  My understanding before I placed the order is that I wasn't expecting any extra fees, since my order total was below the £135 threshold and therefore I'd already paid the VAT directly to Thomann.

Who was the courier?  So I gather you didn't have a delay while the courier charged you for handling the import?  

This to me is my biggest concern as I buy a fair number of things from the US and the courier handling charge and associated delay is the biggest PITA. 

There is a great camera shop in NY called B&H Photo and I've bought a lot of stuff from them, they are like a Thomann for Cameras.  They have a system that means that you don't get this kind of delay as you see all charges in the shopping basket, and that's from the US where we have a less aligned trade arrangement. 

With other vendors it then comes down to who the shipping agent is whether there is a delay,  with some like Royal Mail they won't release the goods till you give them their £11,  with others you get an invoice and the product and can pay after delivery. 

[Kev]

Just now, wambamalubop said:

Who was the courier?  So I gather you didn't have a delay while the courier charged you for handling the import?  

This to me is my biggest concern as I buy a fair number of things from the US and the courier handling charge and associated delay is the biggest PITA. 

There is a great camera shop in NY called B&H Photo and I've bought a lot of stuff from them, they are like a Thomann for Cameras.  They have a system that means that you don't get this kind of delay as you see all charges in the shopping basket, and that's from the US where we have a less aligned trade arrangement. 

With other vendors it then comes down to who the shipping agent is whether there is a delay,  with some like Royal Mail they won't release the goods till you give them their £11,  with others you get an invoice and the product and can pay after delivery. 

For sales under £135, the shop can charge the UK VAT.  If they choose to do that, there will be 0 costs/no handling fee when importing.  Thomann are collecting VAT for orders under £135, so there should never be any charge at all if you order from them.  So it hasn't slipped through the net, its just worked, albeit quicker than mine!

[jrixn1]

9 minutes ago, wambamalubop said:

Who was the courier?  So I gather you didn't have a delay while the courier charged you for handling the import?  . 

It was UPS.  They didn't charge me anything, as Kev says above, the VAT was already paid, so there was no additional service they provided, so there was no additional fee.