EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, Steve Browning said: The bloke down the pub is the usual culprit! In which tier is this pub? 1 Quote
Woodinblack Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 Another of my wifes suppliers (her major supplier in fact) has contacted her saying effectively the good news is that there won't be additional tarrifs, but the bad news is that there will be more paperwork and additional shipping complexity which will be handled by their shipping partners, and the costs of that will be passed on. So its good she can still get it, remains to be seen what the cost increases are and whether they can be absorbed or if they have to be passed on. I suspect a bit of both. She has spent the morning appologising to european customers and trying to work out how to send stuff to northern ireland. Quote
peteb Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, Maude said: I would imagine, but that might impact on sales as buying Brooks means buying British, it's all part of the image. Similar to Fender moving all production out of America. But to what extent? Is putting a union jack on the packaging and Made in Italy on the product really going to make that much difference to their target consumers? Maybe a different thing if they move production out to the far-east. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, peteb said: Is putting a union jack on the packaging and Made in Italy on the product really going to make that much difference to their target consumers? It depends if the purchases are being made by those that are looking to buy British made. ROAR! Britain! 1 Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said: Please - not again ! No doubt that flag was made in China Quote
Al Krow Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: I guess we're about to find how important a market the UK is (for EU businesses) against the rest of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Thomann (or similar) could live without us quite easily. A very good question. My educated guess is that the UK and Germany are the two largest pop / rock music markets in Europe, so by itself the UK is a (very) important market for bass gear. However the online competition in the UK for Thomann was already strong - I can of think of Andertons, PMT, Gear4Music, DV247, RichTone, GuitarGuitar, Hot Rox, Bass Direct, Bass Gallery off the top of my head based in the UK (and I'm sure I've missed some off that list?), combined with other EU retailers e.g. Bax, Muziker, Kytary and it may well be that the introduction of the additional hassle of dealing with the UK will shave the margins sufficiently to make it difficult to compete with the UK based retailers. Set against that - the retail mark-up on goods is pretty hefty. But if the end result of all of this is more local music stores surviving, in my books that may not be a bad thing. 56 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: You do realise that choice is a good thing? Without choice, you get monopolies. Sorry, just had to pick myself off the floor, given that we just agreed on something 😁 Yup, choice - good. Monopolies - bad. Except where they are held by the public to be good (e.g. the NHS) Sorted. Edited January 4, 2021 by Al Krow Quote
paul_c2 Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 54 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: You do realise that choice is a good thing? Without choice, you get monopolies. Hysterical. We are not even close to a monopoly situation. Quote
Rich Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, peteb said: But to what extent? Is putting a union jack on the packaging and Made in Italy on the product really going to make that much difference to their target consumers? Maybe a different thing if they move production out to the far-east. 21 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: It depends if the purchases are being made by those that are looking to buy British made. ROAR! Britain! Just for my own amusement, I briefly joined a 'BUY BRITISH!' farcebook group a while back. I enjoyed laughing at some of the swivel-eyed lunacy on display -- you'd be amazed at how many people really think that Yorkshire Tea is actually grown in Yorkshire -- but it quickly became obvious that for a lot of those people, 'Buy British' actually means 'Buy From Anywhere As Long As It's Not The EU'. 2 Quote
Maude Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: It depends if the purchases are being made by those that are looking to buy British made. ROAR! Britain! Like it or not, that is the case. Brooks' image as a brand, is all about their british heritage, the same as Pashley cycles. I'm not saying I back that notion, but also can't deny it exists. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Al Krow said: A very good question. My educated guess is that the UK and Germany are the two largest pop / rock music markets in Europe, so by itself the UK is a (very) important market for bass gear. However the online competition in the UK for Thomann was already strong - I can of think of Andertons, PMT, Gear4Music, DV247, RichTone, GuitarGuitar, Hot Rox, Bass Direct, Bass Gallery off the top of my head based in the UK (and I'm sure I've missed some off that list?), combined with other EU retailers e.g. Bax, Muziker, Kytary and it may well be that the introduction of the additional hassle of dealing with the UK will shave the margins sufficiently to make it difficult to compete with the UK based retailers. Set against that - the retail mark-up on goods is pretty hefty. But if the end result of all of this is more local music stores surviving, in my books that may not be a bad thing. Sorry, just had to pick myself off the floor, given that we just agreed on something 😁 Yup, choice - good. Monopolies - bad. Except where they held by the public to be good (e.g. the NHS) Sorted. It would be interesting to hear Mark's view on the challenges that Bass Direct currently. The words I saw him utter on Facebook with regard to all of this was - - not the words of a man that seems comfortable with the situation. Hot Rox, Bass Direct, Bass Gallery can't really be grouped in with the rest of the vendors you mention. Their stock levels are much lower, more niche and not of the mainstream brands unlike larger vendors who cover more areas of music - PA, guitars, bass, drums, studio keys... and who's primary business is shifting boxes in large numbers. The type of goods at Bas Direct and Bass Gallery aren't really found many places else within the UK. I don't think we are agreeing in the true sense of the word. Whilst we both agree monopolies are bad, I am of the impression you think there is going to be MORE choice. I think it will be LESS choice. The NHS is an interesting example. It's not really a monopoly in the true sense of the word. Many areas of the NHS are run privately and have either been gifted to the lowest bidder... or friends of friends in high places (but that's probably a different discussion). Having close experiences of some niche treatments in the NHS, not all boroughs are equal! Edited January 4, 2021 by EBS_freak 2 Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Rich said: Just for my own amusement, I briefly joined a 'BUY BRITISH!' farcebook group a while back. I enjoyed laughing at some of the swivel-eyed lunacy on display -- you'd be amazed at how many people really think that Yorkshire Tea is actually grown in Yorkshire -- but it quickly became obvious that for a lot of those people, 'Buy British' actually means 'Buy From Anywhere As Long As It's Not The EU'. Pretty much. And when you actually sit down and ask people where the raw materials for a lot of good comes from, they seem astounded that there are some materials out there that can simply not be found in the UK. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Maude said: Like it or not, that is the case. Brooks' image as a brand, is all about their british heritage, the same as Pashley cycles. I'm not saying I back that notion, but also can't deny it exists. Oh I totally get it. Belstaff - Stoke-on-Trent's finest motocycle waterproofs (as long as you remember it's really Italian) Quote
Maude Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 54 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: The bloke down the pub is the usual culprit! You'd think these big companies would have better advisors than the bloke down the pub before they suspend sales to the UK. https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/ Quote
Al Krow Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: I don't think we are agreeing in the true sense of the word. Whilst we both agree monopolies are bad, I am of the impression you think there is going to be MORE choice. I think it will be LESS choice. More choice is definitely good. But every time a local music store is shut down, to me that represents a loss of choice and a loss to the community, in exactly the same way that every time a local music venue shuts down. Quote
Maude Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, EBS_freak said: Oh I totally get it. Belstaff - Stoke-on-Trent's finest motocycle waterproofs (as long as you remember it's really Italian) But Brooks and Pashley really are British made, and it matters to some, even down to sourcing the correct tubing from the same manufacturer for the last century nearly. Whether it should matter or not is not for me to say. I was mearly commenting on it. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Al Krow said: More choice is definitely good. But every time a local music store is shut down, to me that represents a loss of choice and a loss to the community, in exactly the same way that every time a local music venue shuts down. It depends what angle you look at it. A loss of goods available to you from both small and large vendors... or a loss or premises from which to buy a smaller variety of goods, niche goods. It's all very well if you want to buy your run of the mill - but you are otherwise killing your niche and boutique markets. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Maude said: But Brooks and Pashley really are British made, and it matters to some, even down to sourcing the correct tubing from the same manufacturer for the last century nearly. Whether it should matter or not is not for me to say. I was mearly commenting on it. Yeah, I think my comment wasn't clear enough - there are still folk out there that believe Belstaff are UK through and through based on the fact that their dad wore it and told them so. Talking of Brooks - https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/b17-brooks-lab.html With a design like that, it looks like the guy down the pub told them to cater for all countries and eventualities. Quote
Maude Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, EBS_freak said: Talking of Brooks - https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/b17-brooks-lab.html With a design like that, it looks like the guy down the pub told them to cater for all countries and eventualities. Maybe they've predicted something 😁 Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, paul_c2 said: Hysterical. We are not even close to a monopoly situation. Try laughing at the small independents of niche products. Im sure they'll be belly laughing along with you. Especially if they get through the pandemic. 1 1 Quote
Jack Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Al Krow said: More choice is definitely good. But every time a local music store is shut down, to me that represents a loss of choice and a loss to the community, in exactly the same way that every time a local music venue shuts down. Somewhere in rural middle England a nice local cycling shop is having a brown trousers moment now that the brands discussed above aren't supplying to the UK any more. Local music stores are going to find it much harder to stay open when they are hit with higher costs of import (from the suppliers that will still supply to them) at the same time as losing many of their brands (as some suppliers stop supplying to them). Edited January 4, 2021 by Jack 2 Quote
Steve Browning Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 If Brooks were to use an Italian warehouse using a suspensive regime (a Customs or bonded warehouse) they might find it easier. Quote
EBS_freak Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, Jack said: Somewhere in rural middle England a nice local cycling shop is having a brown trousers moment now that the brands discussed above aren't supplying to the UK any more. Local music stores are going to find it much harder to stay open when they are hit with higher costs of import from the suppliers that will still supply to them and at the same time as losing many of their brands as some suppliers stop supplying to them. But but but... blue passports 2 Quote
Al Krow Posted January 4, 2021 Posted January 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, Rich said: Just for my own amusement, I briefly joined a 'BUY BRITISH!' farcebook group a while back. I enjoyed laughing at some of the swivel-eyed lunacy on display -- you'd be amazed at how many people really think that Yorkshire Tea is actually grown in Yorkshire -- What, its NOT?!!! Dammit this is going straight back to Aldi then 😁 1 Quote
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