Thomann prices?

[Kev]

Just now, MoJoKe said:

if you look, there are a bunch of non-music EU based sellers who are just crossing off the UK from their "shipping to" lists until this mess has been sorted out.  anyone else is feeling their way I suspect.

Yeah I get the ones that are doing that, Musik Productiv was one of them in December, but they have now changed to say they are shipping, but slower.  Their website works for other countries, ie selecting Turkey results in a ex vat price and a warning about customs... it’s very odd 

[MoJoKe]

The long and the short of this is "Buy Local"...  God knows the UK retail market needs you.

[Steve Browning]

3 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

and thats why you pay the VAT, plus a fee (plus VAT) to UPS, not the "exporter", so the exporter cannot quote "inc VAT"

Sorry. Pedant time.

UPS pass on the VAT charged by HMRC on importation. The money you pay to UPS reimburses them the VAT + their handling fee.

No non-UK seller will charge anyone in the UK VAT directly. They may show the price including but I would expect the delivery address part of the checkout to remove it.

[MoJoKe]

1 minute ago, Steve Browning said:

Sorry. Pedant time.

UPS pass on the VAT charged by HMRC on importation. The money you pay to UPS reimburses them the VAT + their handling fee.

No non-UK seller will charge anyone in the UK VAT directly. They may show the price including but I would expect the delivery address part of the checkout to remove it.

That really IS being pedantic!  Of course UPS have to pay the VAT charged by HMRC on import, they are the importing agent, you then have to pay/reimburse them plus a fee (plus their share of the VAT) for all their hard work ....

 

[Kev]

4 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

They may show the price including but I would expect the delivery address part of the checkout to remove it.

That's what I expected, but alas I got all the way to the end, it is very much charging the inc VAT price.  As I say, I';ve emailed them to ask but no response yet.

[MoJoKe]

6 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

The long and the short of this is "Buy Local"...  God knows the UK retail market needs you.

👆🏻

There really isn't anything you cannot get from one of the many UK music shops if you ask!

[Steve Browning]

5 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

That really IS being pedantic!  Of course UPS have to pay the VAT charged by HMRC on import, they are the importing agent, you then have to pay/reimburse them plus a fee (plus their share of the VAT) for all their hard work ....

 

Sorry. Your response ("but UPS are") suggested that UPS charge the VAT and I was just correcting. The end result is the same I admit. Tomayto/tomarto.

[Kev]

2 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

👆🏻

There really isn't anything you cannot get from one of the many UK music shops if you ask!

I always shop local wherever possible, check back to read why I’m looking not to this time.  🙂

[MoJoKe]

6 minutes ago, Kev said:

I always shop local wherever possible, check back to read why I’m looking not to this time.  🙂

"something" which UK dealers don't have yet? Bit vague...  also a bit dodgy if you ask me...  spill the beans or we'll have to assume the worst! 😜

[Jack]

FWIW I got my Thomann order yesterday!

 

Ordered 23/12/20, arrived 6/1/21 so technically I squeezed in before the changes but I was still expecting the worst...

[Kev]

7 minutes ago, Jack said:

FWIW I got my Thomann order yesterday!

 

Ordered 23/12/20, arrived 6/1/21 so technically I squeezed in before the changes but I was still expecting the worst...

Wonder when it passed through customs? As it’s irrelevant when you order it, it would have been when it arrived in the country?

Edited January 7, 2021 by Kev

[peteb]

12 minutes ago, Jack said:

FWIW I got my Thomann order yesterday!

 

Ordered 23/12/20, arrived 6/1/21 so technically I squeezed in before the changes but I was still expecting the worst...

Just got my Thomann order (same day) twenty minutes ago! Excellent service I think, given the current chaos. 

I have always had a good experience with Thomann and I will continue to use them, even if there is a slight premium to pay. If I could have got the same stuff from the music shop that my mate runs in the next town then I would bought from him (same as a number of other small businesses that I deal with), but overall I have no intention to prioritising buying from Britain and will continue to use shops in the EU.

 

[Dudgeman]

Happy new year all...I was about to post a new thread when I saw this one...I did read the first 12 pages and then skim so apologies if this has been covered..the thread seemed to start wandering...

So for my B/day/Christmas I decided I wanted a NI S88 MK2 keyboard...struggling to find one in the UK so popped off to Thomann and they have stock at £715 ....It didn't even cross my mind that leaving the EU would incur Duty and VAT at our border... I really am not that into politics and frankly I had enough to deal with coming up to the new year and completely forgot about Brexit... In my Cart it says nothing about incurred charges and the shipping is free due to ticket price..thing is if I get charged in the UK at 20% that makes the item £850 ish plus a handling fee (which seems to out of my control) which is no where near competitive with UK prices so how on earth are Thomann going to be competitive?

Fortunately I didn't order it. Purely by chance something crept into my head about import as around here (Swindon) they are red hot on collecting all duty/VAT and post office handling fees...In fact it works out to be so expensive I have completely stopped ordering from China and the US..it just isn't economical to do so unless the item price is tiny..

So is there import duty as well as VAT on stuff from Germany?? Which companies are worth buying from..I see DV247 are matching Andertons price at  £799...anyone had any dealings with them? Are they UK based?  I used BAX once and it was a terrible shopping experience so not going back there....Happy to buy in the UK although I liked the non VAT price of Thomann better than the UK prices.. 😂

 

 

[bartelby]

1 minute ago, Dudgeman said:

 

.I see DV247 are matching Andertons price at  £799...anyone had any dealings with them? Are they UK based? 

 

DV247 have an outlet in Romford, but they're based in Germany. So some stuff can come from the UK shop, other stuff comes from Germany.

[Dudgeman]

1 minute ago, bartelby said:

DV247 have an outlet in Romford, but they're based in Germany. So some stuff can come from the UK shop, other stuff comes from Germany.

So on their site it says available in Romford (obviously I cant get there at the moment) so do you know if it is available there it will be all paid up with nothing owing if they ship? Sorry I should ask them..its just your notification popped up..

[MoJoKe]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

Excellent service I think, given the current chaos.

Yup, can't argue with that....

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

If I could have got the same stuff ...

What stuff can't he get?  Theres UK distribution for pretty much everything that Thomann sells, and plenty of alternatives for their own badged items.

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

I have always had a good experience with Thomann and I will continue to use them, even if there is a slight premium to pay.

So have I when I have used them in the past...  However, I will continue to support UK based music shops, even if there is a slight premium to pay.  And this has been my policy for the last 20 years, so has bugger all to do with leaving the EU!  I just value local service/supply.

I'm the same about self-checkouts in supermarkets.  i think they are the devil in disguise, robbing jobs and bumping profits by getting their customers to do the job of the staff they no longer pay....

[Steve Browning]

19 minutes ago, Dudgeman said:

Happy new year all...I was about to post a new thread when I saw this one...I did read the first 12 pages and then skim so apologies if this has been covered..the thread seemed to start wandering...

So for my B/day/Christmas I decided I wanted a NI S88 MK2 keyboard...struggling to find one in the UK so popped off to Thomann and they have stock at £715 ....It didn't even cross my mind that leaving the EU would incur Duty and VAT at our border... I really am not that into politics and frankly I had enough to deal with coming up to the new year and completely forgot about Brexit... In my Cart it says nothing about incurred charges and the shipping is free due to ticket price..thing is if I get charged in the UK at 20% that makes the item £850 ish plus a handling fee (which seems to out of my control) which is no where near competitive with UK prices so how on earth are Thomann going to be competitive?

Fortunately I didn't order it. Purely by chance something crept into my head about import as around here (Swindon) they are red hot on collecting all duty/VAT and post office handling fees...In fact it works out to be so expensive I have completely stopped ordering from China and the US..it just isn't economical to do so unless the item price is tiny..

So is there import duty as well as VAT on stuff from Germany?? Which companies are worth buying from..I see DV247 are matching Andertons price at  £799...anyone had any dealings with them? Are they UK based?  I used BAX once and it was a terrible shopping experience so not going back there....Happy to buy in the UK although I liked the non VAT price of Thomann better than the UK prices.. 😂

 

 

VAT is charged once (or should be). Stuff coming from Germany will cost zero VAT from the supplier and 20% (plus any fees) UK VAT when it arrives in the UK.

DV247 used to a shop in Southampton and I bought from them quite regularly.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Steve Browning

[EBS_freak]

16 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

I'm the same about self-checkouts in supermarkets.  i think they are the devil in disguise, robbing jobs and bumping profits by getting their customers to do the job of the staff they no longer pay....

I loathe those things... and their "unexpected item in packing area"... and the game of trying to get it all to balance properly. ANNOYING. And then if you buy something age restricted, you are left hanging around anyway for the one person who is on duty to go off and get their manager because they aren't old enough to authorise the sale.

I avoid whenever I can.

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

Yup, can't argue with that....

What stuff can't he get?  Theres UK distribution for pretty much everything that Thomann sells, and plenty of alternatives for their own badged items.

So have I when I have used them in the past...  However, I will continue to support UK based music shops, even if there is a slight premium to pay.  And this has been my policy for the last 20 years, so has bugger all to do with leaving the EU!  I just value local service/supply.

I'm the same about self-checkouts in supermarkets.  i think they are the devil in disguise, robbing jobs and bumping profits by getting their customers to do the job of the staff they no longer pay....

My mate runs a small music shop in a small town that mainly sells entry level gear with a few better guitars in stock. You would approve of his shop, it's a drive away but I sometimes drop in for a cuppa and a chat and maybe buy a set of strings. The gripe he has is that he can't carry the stock that he needs to be successful as he can't (for example) afford to buy 10 pieces of Warwick basses / amps from across the whole range, whereas if they were prepared to supply him with two Streamers then he could probably turn them around reasonably quickly. There are a number of well-known brands that do this to him; Warwick is a hypothetical example. He does carry a lot of Blackstar and Hartke as they are a lot more reasonable in this regard. 

I have just bought a branded hardcase (that he might have been able to get, but it would have taken him months and he couldn't have come anywhere close on price) and a few spares from a Greek company who haven't shipped directly to the UK for a while, but who Thomann still carry. 

I'm the same about self-checkouts in supermarkets! 

 

[EBS_freak]

I think the ever decreasing opportunity of sale or return for shops mean that they just can't afford to stock the inventory to begin to compete effectively. As I say, distributors don't want the overhead, they just want to shift boxes.

Edited January 7, 2021 by EBS_freak

[peteb]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

I think the ever decreasing opportunity of sale or return for shops mean that they just can't afford to stock the inventory to begin to compete effectively. As I say, distributors don't want the overhead, they just want to shift boxes.

And small shops just cannot afford to carry too much stock. 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, peteb said:

And small shops just cannot afford to carry too much stock. 

Or have the space to do so.

[peteb]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

Or have the space to do so.

That as well, but more to do with cashflow

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Even that isn't always enough.

Basschatters from Nottingham may recall "Wayne's Guitar Shack" which sold reasonable quality entry level instruments and associated musical equipment. At the back of the shop was a rehearsal room that doubled as the live room for a recording studio. Wayne also organised multi-band showcase gigs twice a month at various pubs, as well as doing general small PA hire. So not only would he sell you your first instrument(s), but he would provide somewhere for your band to rehearse, record your first demo and provide you with your first gigs, and PA hire for when you were ready to gig on your own. Unfortunately even he couldn't make this work and eventually went bust and disappeared.

Abbey Road in Nottingham do lessons and were doing their Abbey Road Army gigs - I did the last one but I don't think it made any money despite being successful. I think they were hoping it would sell more gear (it worked on me, but ...)

[Stub Mandrel]

14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I think the ever decreasing opportunity of sale or return for shops mean that they just can't afford to stock the inventory to begin to compete effectively. As I say, distributors don't want the overhead, they just want to shift boxes.

I spoke to one shop owner, some of the bulk importers (I recall Normans & PMT but could be wrong) sell on at trade prices that allow them to match or compete with online prices (still small margins).

I suspect its high end sales and accessories that are bread and butter for most music shops - selling mid-range and entry level instruments is really about gaining loyal customers