Thomann prices?

[LukeFRC]

3 minutes ago, pete.young said:

I don't suppose I can interest you in buying a bridge, one careful owner, no VAT?

Ah if this had another string I would be all over it. Sorry saving my money for the wall we will shortly need on England's northern border

[Woodinblack]

10 hours ago, Mickyk said:

Great news for British Retailers,and by god this country's small retailers deserve some good news,

Trust me, with a connection to british retailers, there is absolutely nothing good in this for them, unless they are amazon sized, then they are going to clear up.

[Newfoundfreedom]

56 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Trust me, with a connection to british retailers, there is absolutely nothing good in this for them, unless they are amazon sized, then they are going to clear up.

Yup. Same from the other direction. My wife runs a small business here in the EU and supplies to the UK. There's nothing good about any of this from a small business perspective. 

Thankfully the UK market is only a very small part of her business and her ability to trade with the rest of Europe and the world goes on unhindered. I feel sorry for small UK traders who won't have it anywhere near as easy. 

[EBS_freak]

Interesting reading that paints yet another picture - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fish-trade-uk-eu-lorries-exports-b1784312.html?fbclid=IwAR1foEk_2jN1mHWdiRvjtABF1hAAWKA_9hpLryygFqC9qoirxNXCU6kPXtY

[Dudgeman]

47 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Yup. Same from the other direction. My wife runs a small business here in the EU and supplies to the UK. There's nothing good about any of this from a small business perspective. 

Thankfully the UK market is only a very small part of her business and her ability to trade with the rest of Europe and the world goes on unhindered. I feel sorry for small UK traders who won't have it anywhere near as easy. 

I hate to be a downer but I have to agree here. I see a slight parallel with what was going on with my business back in the 90's. Off shore Companies like Thomann are going to become less competitive in the UK market (as proved by my near recent purchase) which closes the door to  foreign competition (In house brands not  withstanding) ..so the big guns  in the UK like Andertons, PMT etc with the buying power to strike major deals with manufacturers and wholesalers are going to end up running the market, cue reduced discounts and price fixing. What our US friends refer to as Mom and pop stores, so our local independent music shops, are, in general,  not going to carry the range/stock, and if they can, are unlikely to be competitive on pricing. There always used to be the pro of  "I can pop down and get it now"  with local stores but with lockdowns and, love it or hate it, the ability of companies like Amazon to delivery next day or in 2 days, I fear for the small high street, and in some cases, internet retailer. The only way to seem to able to survive as a ground business is if you are carrying on an established business with free premises  (so massively reduced overheads),  a really good reputation/customer base and you can offer a unique service.  Anyone tried pulling together a business plan for a start up these days...blimey this country is expensive and on top of that customers aren't allowed out to buy stuff anyway. 

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. If you do run a small business in the UK I wish you all the best. It isn't easy at the best of times and with all the lockdowns it must be incredibly hard to keep motivated and to keep generating a steady income. I really hope that not too many fall by the wayside as when we finally do get back out gigging  the service you offer will be sorely missed if you aren't there. 

 

[Jack]

20 hours ago, Kev said:

You misunderstood, I meant when you bought it was irrelevant to whether or not your paid VAT again or not.  Could have backordered in November and it still would have cost you more if it hit the border after 1/1.  It must have come up for a lot of people, unless they were just sending ones back that were marked as EU , as they wouldn’t have the right papers.

Don't think so. I paid vat at point of purchase, I was worried that if it cleared customs after the new year they might seek to add vat on top even thigh I'd already paid it. As it turns out I didn't have to fight, there was no trouble. 

[EBS_freak]

33 minutes ago, Jack said:

Don't think so. I paid vat at point of purchase, I was worried that if it cleared customs after the new year they might seek to add vat on top even thigh I'd already paid it. As it turns out I didn't have to fight, there was no trouble. 

All goods that started their journey pre EU Exit crossed under the EU membership agreements. (Or should have)

[LukeFRC]

DPD suspend road shipping from UK-Europe ... 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/08/firms-including-ms-suspend-eu-exports-over-brexit-smallprint

[EBS_freak]

"Amazon: It is no longer possible to access Amazon UK from the EU depriving UK sellers of a 440 million customer base in Europe. UK merchants will be unable to fulfill EU orders using Amazon’s logistics networks"

Guess the UK vendors will just have to be limited to selling within the UK then.

[lurksalot]

20 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

"Amazon: It is no longer possible to access Amazon UK from the EU depriving UK sellers of a 440 million customer base in Europe. UK merchants will be unable to fulfill EU orders using Amazon’s logistics networks"

Guess the UK vendors will just have to be limited to selling within the UK then.

Interesting , I wonder if the Amazon fulfilment in this country will still be deemed from Luxembourg ! 
maybe they’ll have to start paying uk tax now 😂

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, lurksalot said:

Interesting , I wonder if the Amazon fulfilment in this country will still be deemed from Luxembourg ! 
maybe they’ll have to start paying uk tax now 😂

It will take more than brexit to make amazon pay tax!

[MoJoKe]

On 07/01/2021 at 14:30, Steve Browning said:

DV247 used to a shop in Southampton and I bought from them quite regularly.

The also had one in Bristol...  they are definitely a German company now though...

[MoJoKe]

On 08/01/2021 at 11:28, Dudgeman said:

 ..so the big guns  in the UK like Andertons, PMT etc with the buying power to strike major deals with manufacturers and wholesalers are going to end up running the market....

What, you mean like Thomann and Amazon have been doing for the last 4-5 years...?  I'd love to know how many here actually have the first idea what a viable profit margin in retail is considered to be, and what most actually make as a living after paying the bills, compared to say, 20 years ago?  Did you feel ripped off then too?

Price fixing has been discussed on Basschat before, there's a massive difference between price fixing and maintaining viable margin to survive.  As I've said before, I'd rather pay more for good service.

When I was a salesman 30 years ago, I remember someone saying to me "you have to stay in business, so I don't begrudge you a profit, its just the percentage that matters to me...  Good attitude.  Always respected that man, and we did business for a long time after that discussion.

Bricks and mortar shops are expensive to run,  The guys who are moving off the high street to industrial units have a better chance without high street rates, but it's still close.  I suspect very few UK music shop owners drive posh cars or own boats or 2nd homes in Salcombe...  Even if they did I wouldn't begrudge them that as long as I am getting great service and a fair deal, because they're gonna have to be working pretty long hours to achieve it...

[Newfoundfreedom]

Well, I've just had official confirmation that the forward shipping company I use to get goods from the UK to me in Bulgaria have now ceased trading in the UK because of Brexit.

I've been using them for over 5 years and I've shipped hundreds of items, from cheap eBay rubbish to musical instruments and even expensive computer parts, bank cards, and official documents, without a single problem. By far the best and most reliable courier service I have ever used, and they're now out of business, and all their UK warehouse staff and drivers out of a job. But I bet they're buzzing about their blue passports. 

[EBS_freak]

39 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Well, I've just had official confirmation that the forward shipping company I use to get goods from the UK to me in Bulgaria have now ceased trading in the UK because of Brexit.

I've been using them for over 5 years and I've shipped hundreds of items, from cheap eBay rubbish to musical instruments and even expensive computer parts, bank cards, and official documents, without a single problem. By far the best and most reliable courier service I have ever used, and they're now out of business, and all their UK warehouse staff and drivers out of a job. But I bet they're buzzing about their blue passports. 

Yup. The thing I find most frustrating about all of this is that the decisions made on this were driven by a decision by people who have not got a Scooby Doo on how any of this works - as proven in this thread. Its easy to say "buy British" - but the the complex pieces of string that hold all this together are far from easy to work out. We will see the fall out from this for many years to come... Some people have got very rich from it though. So there is that. They'll be paying all the taxes on their new found wealth... oh no. That will be stashed off shore.

But as you say, blue passports... for what they are worth at the moment. Killer form of ID down the post office though I guess.

[EBS_freak]

Additionally, tricks like what Music Tribe are up to (Behringer) is not going to be helping. Similar Fender. They are basically cutting the small independents out - again, as I say, it's all about shifting boxes now. All manufacturers and distributors want the goods out of their hands and accounting for in the books asap (who doesn't?). But then all the risk is at the end retailer. The ability to drop 50 boxes of goods to a retailer is infinitely more appealing to just dropping 1 or 2 to that small independent. If the UK music industry is to survive, the distributors really need to help those that are going to struggle. I suspect they won't... as it's an overhead. Ergo, the large music supermarkets will get bigger, the smaller establishments will go pop.

I fear that we are now entering a circle of self destruction. I understand what @MoJoKe is saying - but that also assumes that people have spare pennies to spend. People won't - especially as times will start to get tougher and not aided by the pandemic. If they can save a quid off Amazon, they will.

Funnily enough, I've seen this before - in car insurance. There used to be high streets full of brokers, who would get you the best deal. Eventually, the Internet came along and caused disruption. The same service could be offered in an automated fashion and cut out the brokers and the cost associated with the bricks and mortar front ends. Of course, what they didn't tell you, is that a lot of the larger operations, were deliberately operating at a loss to undercut the high street - as they knew they could put the vast majority out of business within 2 years. And that is what happened. Then they jacked up the commission prices to recover the losses.

Edited January 12, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Additionally, tricks like what Music Group are up to (Behringer) is not going to be helping. Similar Fender. They are basically cutting the small independents out - again, as I say, it's all about shifting boxes now. All manufacturers and distributors want the goods out of their hands and accounting for in the books asap (who doesn't?). But then all the risk is at the end retailer.

Like I posted a few days ago, many people don't realise that many independents source their (non fender/gibson) stock from big online sellers. As I understand it this can include Squier guitars. It was getting really tough back in 2019, two shops told me Gibson were insisting shops held  a five-figure value of Gibson guitars if they wanted to stock Epiphone - practices like that were far more damaging IMHO.

[EBS_freak]

7 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Like I posted a few days ago, many people don't realise that many independents source their (non fender/gibson) stock from big online sellers. As I understand it this can include Squier guitars. It was getting really tough back in 2019, two shops told me Gibson were insisting shops held  a five-figure value of Gibson guitars if they wanted to stock Epiphone - practices like that were far more damaging IMHO.

Indeed - and can a shop be seen to be credible if it doesn't stock Fender or Gibson? To the wet behind the ears noob, you walk into a shop and if those brands aren't present, it's automatically discounted as not being a good shop.

[EBS_freak]

Funnily enough, I've just been onto Amazon to see whats happening regarding Fender - the first two I clicked on, happened to be Zoundhouse (Germany) and Bax UK (although if you look at the seller details, it discloses NL).

There are UK sellers on there, Absolute, Fair Deal... but again, they are the larger organisations who are just using Amazon to widen their footprint. As a seller, Amazon is not a great platform as it's takes a lot of your markup - but you could argue, better to sell at less than not at all... but then we are on that downward spiral of diminishing profits to enable a living wage.

[EBS_freak]

Bax UK -

Detailed Seller Information

• Business Name:Bax-shop.nl B.V.
• Business Type:Privately-owned business
• Trade Register Number:50943642
• VAT Number:GB195900482
• Phone number:00312036952176
• Customer Services Address:
  • Olympiastraat 2
  • Goes
  • 4462GG
  • NL
• Business Address:
  • Olympiastraat 2
  • Goes
  • 4462GG
  • NL

 

VAT registered but that's pretty much the only UK thing about it.

[taunton-hobbit]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

better to sell at less than not at all... but then we are on that downward spiral of diminishing profits to enable a living wage.

That's a non-tecnical term for 'a race to the bottom'?

😎

[EBS_freak]

16 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

That's a non-tecnical term for 'a race to the bottom'?

😎

It's already started. You wait until wedding bands are told they can perform again. Some very good pro bands will be pitching pub prices in order to get to play something.

And as for the "international wedding bands" - yeah, keep on dreaming. Those days have gone. (Yet those are the bands that seem to be splashing out on putting out high production videos in lockdown, whilst not socially distancing, in order to flex over other bands to get gigs that don't even exist - and concurrently complaining about lack of money, gigs and support from the government (especially when they've wrapped up all their payouts in dividends)).

Couldn't make it up could you?

Edited January 11, 2021 by EBS_freak

[LukeFRC]

18 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

It's already started. You wait until wedding bands are told they can perform again. Some very good pro bands will be pitching pub prices in order to get to play something.

And as for the "international wedding bands" - yeah, keep on dreaming. Those days have gone. (Yet those are the bands that seem to be splashing out on putting out high production videos in lockdown, whilst not socially distancing, in order to flex over other bands to get gigs that don't even exist - and concurrently complaining about lack of money, gigs and support from the government (especially when they've wrapped up all their payouts in dividends)).

Couldn't make it up could you?

are you suggesting us lot who pay 20-40% tax shouldn't feel that sympathetic to those for who mange to pay much less by paying themselves from dividend and have lost out on some support from the government? 

[EBS_freak]

I wouldn't suggest anything of the sort.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Indeed - and can a shop be seen to be credible if it doesn't stock Fender or Gibson? To the wet behind the ears noob, you walk into a shop and if those brands aren't present, it's automatically discounted as not being a good shop.

Very few small shops stock Gibson. I went in a lot during 2019, noticed this and that's how I found out what was happening.

One shop I've been visiting since at least 2017 used to have a whole wall of Epiphones and a few Gibsons, they didn't have a single new Gibson or Epiphone last few times I visited. I think it's only PMT that I have seen Gibson in for agood while.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Stub Mandrel