Korg USA has bought Aguilar...

[cetera]

https://www.musictech.net/news/industry/korg-usa-acquires-aguilar-amplification/

[peteb]

History suggests that doesn't bode well (SWR, Eden, etc). 

[AndyTravis]

Hmm they seem to be doing ok with Spector 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Al Krow]

I presume Korg USA are to Korg what Line 6 are to Yamaha i.e. US subsidiaries of Japanese parents?

Yamaha have done a fabulous job with Line 6, and I wasn't even aware that my Euro 5LX was a "Korg" which also bodes well for how Korg is treating its investment in Spector. And if you've just spent $multi-millions buying a company, why wouldn't you want it to thrive, particularly when it's largely adding to and not competing directly with your existing product range?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Al Krow

[chris_b]

Oh dear!!

[Al Krow]

28 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Oh dear!!

That's a very pessimistic statement, Chris! You basing it on anything?

Line 6 have thrived under Japanese (Yamaha) ownership.

I'm betting it will be a better business decision than Sadowsky getting Warwick to make their budget basses...you know what some of these German engineers can be like with their emissions reporting don't you? 😁

[peteb]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I presume Korg USA are to Korg what Line 6 are to Yamaha i.e. US subsidiaries of Japanese parents?

Yamaha have done a fabulous job with Line 6, and I wasn't even aware that my Euro 5LX was a "Korg" which also bodes well for how Korg is treating its investment in Spector. And if you've just spent $multi-millions buying a company, why wouldn't you want it to thrive, particularly when it's largely adding to and not competing directly with your existing product range?

Blind optimism isn't usually my thing, so let's hope that you're right on this one. What happened with SWR and Eden (broadly similar brands to Aguilar) was awful. 

I was once obliged to play a dep gig using a Line 6 bass combo. It was terrible, probably the worst amp I've ever used live. 

[Al Krow]

Just now, peteb said:

Blind optimism isn't usually my thing, so let's hope that you're right on this one. What happened with SWR and Eden (broadly similar brands to Aguilar) was awful. 

I was once obliged to play a dep gig using a Line 6 bass combo. It was terrible, probably the worst amp I've ever used live. 

Pete, I'm not familiar with SWR and Eden takeover stories. Who were the acquiring parties? 

But my point is that some companies can do takeovers really well and you've got some current successful real life examples given above, so it's based on track record rather than blind optimism. 

[Doddy]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Pete, I'm not familiar with SWR and Eden takeover stories. Who were the acquiring parties? 

But my point is that some companies can do takeovers really well and you've got some current successful real life examples given above, so it's based on track record rather than blind optimism. 

Fender bought SWR and then stopped production ( they later did the same with Genz Benz), and Marshall bought Eden.

I don't see any reason why Korg would screw over Aguilar. It's not like they have any other bass amp brands, unlike a company like Fender.

[peteb]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Pete, I'm not familiar with SWR and Eden takeover stories. Who were the acquiring parties? 

But my point is that some companies can do takeovers really well and you've got some current successful real life examples given above, so it's based on track record rather than blind optimism. 

Fender were the guilty party with SWR; I can't remember at this late hour who bought out Eden. 

I've actually got a Spector Euro 5 string, but it was acquired for a specific project that has been put on ice due to the pandemic, so I've hardly played it. I haven't heard any horror stories about Spector so hopefully they will look after the Aguilar brand. However, you will note the initial reaction of Chris, a serious player who I believe is an Aguilar user. 

We shall see... 

Edited January 6, 2021 by peteb

[peteb]

17 minutes ago, Doddy said:

Fender bought SWR and then stopped production ( they later did the same with Genz Benz), and Marshall bought Eden.

I don't see any reason why Korg would screw over Aguilar. It's not like they have any other bass amp brands, unlike a company like Fender.

Unfortunately there is always the temptation for a company like Korg to acquire a high profile quality brand like Aguilar and then move production to the far East, cut costs and reduce standards. Let's hope that this will not happen with Aguilar.

Edited January 6, 2021 by peteb

[chris_b]

Guys, I hope your optimism wins out over my pessimism.

Eden, SWR, Fender, Trace Elliot, Genz Benz all suffered a change of fortune when they were either bought by larger companies, or had "money men" parachuted in. 

I've been using Aguilar amps for many years. When you find something that just works you don't want it to change. . . .  and it will change. I know all companies have to be profitable, but Korg's only focus will be the bottom line, like CBS when they bought Fender.  It must be tough, running a manufacturing business in New York these days and paying US wages, so my guess is they'll be moved to China within 2 years and look at the trouble Warwick is having with it's new Chinese made Sadowsky basses! I'm typing this on a Lenovo lap top (Chinese owned), I have a Volvo (Chinese owned) in the drive and my pension scheme was sold to a Chinese company shortly before I started collecting! After the tone, the thing I liked about Aguilar was they're not made in China.

Edited January 6, 2021 by chris_b
Spelling

[Doctor J]

The buyer is the important factor, not that they were bought. 

[AndyTravis]

They also turned the fortunes of Vox around...🤷🏻‍♂️

[AndyTravis]

Seems to be some shenanigans with Gibson and Mesa Boogie too 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Cato]

I think the phenomenom of the late 90s/2000s where Gibson and Fender acquired numerous musical manufacturing and technology companies seemingly with the sole intention of ending them is over.

Apart from anything else the practice was eyewateringly expensive and at least partly responsible for the current situation where both companies have acquired dangerous levels of debt.

 I can't imagine Korg has any nefarious plans for Aguilar other than hopefully increasing their profit margins.

[Doctor J]

I'm not aware of anything in the Korg portfolio which is a competitor with Aguilar. When Gibson and Fender were running so many great builders into the ground, they usually were competitors in the same section of the market. Korg don't stand to gain anything by destroying Aguilar, nor do they have a history of acquire and destroy.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Doctor J

[Doddy]

13 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Seems to be some shenanigans with Gibson and Mesa Boogie too 🤷🏻‍♂️

I've heard about that too.  If it's true, it probably won't work out too well for Mesa. Look at what Gibson did to Trace Elliot.

With Aguilar, I think they are still generally seen as being more of a boutique amp, and the deal with Korg will probably get them to more dealers and may give them enough money to not have to shift production. I guess we'll wait and see.

 

[geoham]

40 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Seems to be some shenanigans with Gibson and Mesa Boogie too 🤷🏻‍♂️

Last time Gibson were in the news, was because they were bankrupt. Surprising they've turned things around enough to be in the acquisitions market.

[LukeFRC]

6 minutes ago, geoham said:

Last time Gibson were in the news, was because they were bankrupt. Surprising they've turned things around enough to be in the acquisitions market.

Maybe Mesa are buying Gibson?

[AndyTravis]

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/gibson-buys-mesa-boogie.345625/#post-5224494
 

All rumour mill.

[krispn]

Maybe I should go and buy that DB680 before the prices get stupid. 

[Steve Browning]

Ooh. Maybe I should switch to Thunderbird basses. 🙂

[Bolo]

11 hours ago, chris_b said:

Guys, I hope your optimism wins out over my pessimism.

Eden, SWR, Fender, Trace Elliot, Genz Benz all suffered a change of fortune when they were either bought by larger companies, or had "money men" parachuted in. 

I've been using Aguilar amps for many years. When you find something that just works you don't want it to change. . . .  and it will change. I know all companies have to be profitable, but Korg's only focus will be the bottom line, like CBS when they bought Fender.  It must be tough, running a manufacturing business in New York these days and paying US wages, so my guess is they'll be moved to China within 2 years and look at the trouble Warwick is having with it's new Chinese made Sadowsky basses! I'm typing this on a Lenovo lap top (Chinese owned), I have a Volvo (Chinese owned) in the drive and my pension scheme was sold to a Chinese company shortly before I started collecting! After the tone, the thing I liked about Aguilar was they're not made in China.

Korg is not Chinese, and doesn't look to be purchasing competition to vulture their tech and/or patents as 7ender was. Spector was already named as a quality acquisition that seems to be doing well with Korg.

Trace was doing poorly for a while but pre-covid seemed to be regaining some traction under the Peavey flag.

I hope it all goes well.

 

[Merton]

Eden were screwed over by US Music Group in the early 2000s (who also had Washburn amongst others) - it has been Marshall who's brought them back from the brink and introduced new lines. IIRC US Music did to Eden similar to what Gibson had done to Trace, i.e. buy cheaper components and outsource manufacture so quality dipped. Add that to no new product launches for years... 

WRT to Korg/Aguilar, I can see potential for a catastrophe or a shrewd win for both parties.. Hopefully the latter if, as has been mentioned already, Korg use their muscle to get Aguilar in more places than they already are and use their far bigger financial clout to support them through these tough times.