Korg USA has bought Aguilar...

[fretmeister]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Maybe Mesa are buying Gibson?

Not a chance. Mesa is tiny compared to Gibson.

[peteb]

41 minutes ago, Bolo said:

Korg is not Chinese, and doesn't look to be purchasing competition to vulture their tech and/or patents as 7ender was. Spector was already named as a quality acquisition that seems to be doing well with Korg.

Trace was doing poorly for a while but pre-covid seemed to be regaining some traction under the Peavey flag.

I hope it all goes well.

 

You don’t have to be a Chinese company to move production out to China.

The thing is that companies like Aguilar and Mesa are usually privately owned and understand their products and customer base. Of course, they want to make money, but they don’t need to make it all right now and they are just as concerned about their reputation and the continued excellence of their products. As soon as they are bought out by a larger company, their amps are no longer the core business and ‘Wall Street’ rules start to apply – its all about quarterly earnings, short term profits and cutting costs. The parent company understands the brand rather than the product and the new CEO just wants to make quick profits to justify his annual bonus rather than ensure the long-term reputation and viability of the company (in three years time he will have moved onto another job anyway).

I am sure that there are exceptions, but this is why these mergers are rarely a good thing for these smaller high-end producers.

Edited January 6, 2021 by peteb

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Not a chance. Mesa is tiny compared to Gibson.

The rumour is the relationship will supposedly be a 'mutual partnership'... 

[Cato]

11 minutes ago, peteb said:

The rumour is the relationship will supposedly be a 'mutual partnership'... 

With Gibson's reputation where it is at the moment they might be concerned that calling it a takeover will devalue the Mesa brand.

Not that I'm sure I believe the rumours, it seems like odd timing for the new consortium that took over a bankrupt Gibson 2 years ago to be looking to expand.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Cato

[fretmeister]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

The rumour is the relationship will supposedly be a 'mutual partnership'... 

I've heard rumours of a 50% buy by Gibson.

Randall Smith is old. I'm sure he's exploring his retirement options.

[peteb]

6 minutes ago, Cato said:

With Gibson's reputation where it is at the moment they might be concerned that calling it a takeover will devalue the Mesa brand.

Not that I'm sure I believe the rumours, it seems like odd timing for the new consortium that took over a bankrupt Gibson 2 years ago to be looking to expand.

It's the way of Wall Street, 'grow or die'! In that environment, it is a no brainer to prioritise shot term gains over long term survival. 

I have just read that Gibson have 'restructured' and got rid of a lot of the old debt off their books. 

1 minute ago, fretmeister said:

I've heard rumours of a 50% buy by Gibson.

Randall Smith is old. I'm sure he's exploring his retirement options.

I believe that he is well into his 70s. I'm sure that he deserves some sort of retirement... 

[krispn]

To be fair Alex Aguilar has been out of the company for many, many years and recently worked with Fender on the Downtown Express ‘multi fx’. 
 

I do understand that a buyout or ‘takeover’ is a different thing and not that I plan on buying any Aguilar gear in the near future let’s hope that a well respected company can keep its rep and continue to bring out decent products. I wonder if we’re likely to see a sudden surge in pedals and other non amp/cab gear?  

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

I believe that he is well into his 70s. I'm sure that he deserves some sort of retirement... 

which makes sense - esp at this point where Covid is doing funny things to the economy. Sell 50% and have enough to retire on ? - -why not? 

Same with Roger Sadowsky - I guess you get to an age and you're not going to be around forever and if Warwick are going to pay for your retirement by using your name - so be it

[chris_b]

2 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Same with Roger Sadowsky - I guess you get to an age and you're not going to be around forever and if Warwick are going to pay for your retirement by using your name - so be it

That's not going to plan at the moment!

Ken Smith has handed over his entire operation to Kevin Brubaker. Pete Stephens handed Wal over Paul Herman. Stuart Spector gave up and sold to Korg. His partner is staying on for a year so we'll see how that pans out. It seems that if you want to maintain your legacy, find a like minded person to carry on. By selling or licencing to a corporation your legacy is in far more danger.

[Steve Browning]

Mesa Boogie have just announced they're part of Gibson.

[Dan Dare]

16 hours ago, peteb said:

Unfortunately there is always the temptation for a company like Korg to acquire a high profile quality brand like Aguilar and then move production to the far East, cut costs and reduce standards. Let's hope that this will not happen with Aguilar.

Yep. They will probably move production to somewhere cheap, but continue to charge the same prices. Even if they don't lower standards, they will still be quids in. I happily paid the high price (compared to other brands for an equivalent) for an AG700 because I liked the fact that it hadn't been built by children in the Far East earning minimum wage.

[skidder652003]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

Mesa Boogie have just announced they're part of Gibson.

now that's worrying...

[peteb]

51 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Yep. They will probably move production to somewhere cheap, but continue to charge the same prices. Even if they don't lower standards, they will still be quids in. 

If they didn't lower standards then it wouldn't be an issue. But they will... 

[Bolo]

Bunch of doomprophets here. What's the point in repeating over and over that no good can come of any of this and they all gave up, sold out and everything went to hell? In some cases that's not even remotely truthful.

Cheer the f. Up.

[Bassybert]

8 minutes ago, Bolo said:

Bunch of doomprophets here. What's the point in repeating over and over that no good can come of any of this and they all gave up, sold out and everything went to hell? In some cases that's not even remotely truthful.

Cheer the f. Up.

Probably, because in the vast amount of instances where companies have been bought out, said company’s quality goes down and corners cut in order to increase profitability and recoup the money spent by the parent company in acquiring said company.

 It happens all the time, and if these moves went well all the time and quality stayed  the same or went up then people wouldn’t be so pessimistic, but they don’t, they usually end up going south. 

[mcnach]

14 hours ago, Bolo said:

Bunch of doomprophets here. What's the point in repeating over and over that no good can come of any of this and they all gave up, sold out and everything went to hell? In some cases that's not even remotely truthful.

Cheer the f. Up.

 

Yeah, let's go back to important yet never repeated questions like... P or J? which bass for metal? is pick only for heathens? etc...

[krispn]

As others have said it’s not always a great long term deal for the end consumer when companies join forces/sell out/merge etc. If Korg leave Aguilar to their own devices to continue doing what they do from their NYC base and don’t impose the business model of ‘more profit year on year or else we move production to Asia then I’m sure folks will be happy. Look at the stir caused by the Vietnamese made SVT’s QC and the ensuing and entirely predictable USA made Heritage model’s which were priced way above what many can afford.

Line 6/Yamaha were mentioned and that appears to be a good example of a company leaving well enough alone. To be fair It’s not like Line 6 were some start up and I‘d imagine the L6 crew had some specific clauses to preserving their autonomy. It’s a;so very likely that Yamaha are no fools either and see the market moving to digital/modeling and rightly identified L6 as a market leader in modeling and innovation in that area and the benefits of their acquisition benefit both parties long term. Korg and Spector have been mentioned as a positive move too and presuming they don’t have some caveat that after X years the bean counters have the main say in how things develop I’m sure it’ll continue to be a positive move for all involved. 
 

People’s pessimism is totally valid as there’s a few terrible examples already highlighted (Fender and the recent Sadowsky/Warwick stuff) where these type of deals (Gibson Mesa is another recent deal which has caused concern and I think that is totally valid too) have meant a drop in quality or brands disappearing entirely. I guess Fender used the Genz Benz know how to inform their Rumble amps so the end user doesn’t necessarily  ‘lose out’ but the marketplace becomes that little bit less exciting in terms of competition spurring innovation but who knows what clever ideas are on the horizon! That’s at least something to be positive about.

I’ve no plans to buy any Mesa, Aguilar, Gibson or Korg gear in ’21 - well not new at least and I’m more likely to sell off gear due to the pandemic. I guess for companies a deal with Korg or Gibson isn’t too far removed form that notion either. Better to put money in the retirement fund as the global pandemic continues to rage and gigs don’t look that likely in the near future for many of us, few peo-le with disposable income and nowhere to play as the global economy continues to struggle. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by krispn

[gjones]

41 minutes ago, krispn said:

I’ve no plans to buy any Mesa, Aguilar, Gibson or Korg gear in ’21 - well not new at least and I’m more likely to sell off gear due to the pandemic. I guess for companies a deal with Korg or Gibson isn’t too far removed form that notion either. Better to put money in the retirement fund as the global pandemic continues to rage and gigs don’t look that likely in the near future for many of us, few peo-le with disposable income and nowhere to play as the global economy continues to struggle. 

You're completely right, only an idiot would buy an amp in the middle of a pandemic.

Cue guilty look as he hides his newly acquired Markbass combo. 

[Teebs]

I might buy Gibson & close them down.

Or maybe have them making branded baseball caps and nothing else...

Gibson can't be that expensive to buy - they've been bankrupt more times than Donald J Trump!

Never liked Gibson's stuff (except the Thunderbird).