Visa free touring in EU.

[Stingray5]

Sorry, Rich, I'm afraid not - as I say, they cut away just as Boris started to reply. I believe he was being asked if he would meet to discuss the question of Europe-wide Visa-free work permits (as per the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/563294).

[skankdelvar]

39 minutes ago, Rich said:

Any idea what the answer was? Or the actual question, for that matter?

Text from the BBC news web site / PMQ's feed:

Labour's Kevin Brennan asks about visas for British musicians to perform in the EU and vice versa, saying it is disappointing that a reciprocal deal has yet to be agreed.

He says the issue is fixable but needs leadership from the top.

He urges a cross-party approach to sort this out as soon as possible, given the damage he says it will do to the UK's reputation as one of the leading cultural centres in Europe.

The PM agrees, saying he expects the EU will want to do more to facilitate easy travel for musicians and other professionals across a range of sectors, saying there is a "mutual benefit".

Edited January 13, 2021 by skankdelvar

[cetera]

More piffle, poffle, wiffle, waffle and blustering twaddle from Doris then.... accepting no responsibility or ownership of his poor decision making and negotiating....

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, cetera said:

More piffle, poffle, wiffle, waffle and blustering twaddle from Doris then.... accepting no responsibility or ownership of his poor decision making and negotiating....

Lol! Give the poor guy a break. Didn't all the naysayers say a trade deal with the EU was impossible in 12 months as the EU took 7 years to agree one with Canada? Well he's got one. That's a pretty decent bit of negotiating in my books.

And tbf he may have a couple of other things in his in-tray higher up on his to do list than sorting out visas for currently non-existent tours...

Edited January 13, 2021 by Al Krow

[Russ]

4 minutes ago, cetera said:

More piffle, poffle, wiffle, waffle and blustering twaddle from Doris then.... accepting no responsibility or ownership of his poor decision making and negotiating....

Spaffer and his cronies have absolutely no interest in the performing arts or in doing anything to help.

Just look at the whole Fatima ad campaign from a couple of months back.

[cetera]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Lol! Give the poor guy a break. Didn't all the naysayers say a trade deal with the EU was impossible in 12 months as they took 7 years to agree one with Canada.

 

The only break he'll get is the tax break for him and his paymasters.

Oooh yes.... what a cracker of a deal he got! *facepalm*

[EBS_freak]

And look at all the time that was left for all the computer systems - that run the very economy on which the country relies - to be implemented/recoded.

Irrespective of the deal, the specifics of the deal were needed 18-24 months ago.

Edited January 13, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, cetera said:

The only break he'll get is the tax break for him and his paymasters.

Oooh yes.... what a cracker of a deal he got! *facepalm*

Yup totally agreed, it was pretty darned good. Better terms than any free trade deal that the EU has struck with any other nation on the planet...a number of Norwegians are now saying "could we have a little have what the Brits have got please!"

[ambient]

I suspect the fat controller is loathe to do anything that allows people from other countries to have freer access to the U.K. Which is what would happen if he implemented what was previously proposed.

[Al Krow]

So who exactly has a 2021 EU tour that is being impacted by the current visa arrangements??

 

 

Ah that's right, no one.

Best log back in in 8 months when this might actually be an issue...😁

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Yup totally agreed, it was pretty darned good. Better terms than any free trade deal that the EU has struck with any other nation on the planet...a number of Norwegians are now saying "could we have a little have what the Brits have got please!"

Im not surprised - but the difference is the UK has a GDP of $2.638 trillion vs $366 billion of the Norway. So whatever deal making is on the table for Norway, it's going to be more difficult for them to broker anything more than a little.

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So who exactly has a 2021 EU tour that is being impacted by the current visa arrangements??

 

 

Ah that's right, no one.

Best log back in in 8 months when this might actually be an issue...😁

Gigging starts in May, apparently.

[cetera]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So who exactly has a 2021 EU tour that is being impacted by the current visa arrangements??

Ah that's right, no one.

Best log back in in 8 months when this might actually be an issue...😁

 

Short sighted comment. Tours etc are often organised at least 9-12 months in advance. There might be no tours in the next 9 months but that doesn't mean people aren't working towards things in 2022 and later....

[Belka]

11 minutes ago, ambient said:

I suspect the fat controller is loathe to do anything that allows people from other countries to have freer access to the U.K. Which is what would happen if he implemented what was previously proposed.

I doubt he cares to be honest, but he's terrified that Priti will shout at him if anything is done to allow freer movement.

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

 

I started tidying up and removing blatant political opinion and off-topic Brexity stuff, but I've run out of enthusiasm. Please stick to the original topic. It's interesting and informative, and it would be a shame to lock it.

obviously this post didn't appear in everybody's thread

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Gigging starts in May, apparently.

But in the UK, apparently. Either that or in 2022...

8 minutes ago, cetera said:

Short sighted comment. Tours etc are often organised at least 9-12 months in advance. There might be no tours in the next 9 months but that doesn't mean people aren't working towards things in 2022 and later....

No that's fair, mate. But perhaps also true that anyone planning on a major 2022 tour is likely to have half decent management dealing with the admin side of things and visas are going to be a relatively small item in the scheme of things for bigger bands? What EU venues are seriously currently giving thought to 2022 bookings for smaller bands without admin support, right now?

4 minutes ago, Belka said:

I doubt he cares to be honest, but he's terrified that Priti will shout at him if anything is done to allow freer movement.

Haha - she can shout at me anytime she likes 😉

[BigRedX]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So who exactly has a 2021 EU tour that is being impacted by the current visa arrangements??

 

 

Ah that's right, no one.

Best log back in in 8 months when this might actually be an issue...😁

Yes very short sighted.

Our support tour already postponed from last year when it would still have been simply a question of sticking us and our gear in the van and heading across the channel to play the gigs that had been booked, looks increasingly like too much work to organise. The promoter has already hinted that even if it does go ahead at the end of this year it might be simpler for him to book an EU-based band as support, unless we can guarantee to have all the relevant paperwork in place for us to do it.

[ambient]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

Yes very short sighted.

Our support tour already postponed from last year when it would still have been simply a question of sticking us and our gear in the van and heading across the channel to play the gigs that had been booked, looks increasingly like too much work to organise. The promoter has already hinted that even if it does go ahead at the end of this year it might be simpler for him to book an EU-based band as support, unless we can guarantee to have all the relevant paperwork in place for us to do it.

For me and a great many I know, it’s just been a case of jumping on a Eurostar - that’s for friends coming from mainland Europe too.

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Yes very short sighted.

Our support tour already postponed from last year when it would still have been simply a question of sticking us and our gear in the van and heading across the channel to play the gigs that had been booked, looks increasingly like too much work to organise. The promoter has already hinted that even if it does go ahead at the end of this year it might be simpler for him to book an EU-based band as support, unless we can guarantee to have all the relevant paperwork in place for us to do it.

But seriously BRX are you saying your support tour was postponed due to the visa situation and had nothing to do with the fact that all the venues are closed due to the pandemic?

[Lardy]

Interesting article in NME on this topic today. The response to NME by the culture secretary includes  “Artists, musicians, and entertainers from the EU don’t need a visa to give performances, take part in competitions or promotional activities. If they get paid, they can stay for up to one month, and if they are only claiming expenses or prize money, they can stay for up to six months ...”. Looks like a unilateral concession by the UK government. Anyone know any more?

[BigRedX]

Just now, Al Krow said:

But seriously BRX are you saying your support tour was postponed due to the visa situation and had nothing to do with the fact that all the venues are closed due to the pandemic?

No. I said that last year it was postponed (obviously due to the pandemic) and this year if it is possible to go ahead we'll probably get over-looked in favour of a band that doesn't need multiple visas and work permits as well as carnets for all our equipment and merchandise.

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, Lardy said:

Interesting article in NME on this topic today. The response to NME by the culture secretary includes  “Artists, musicians, and entertainers from the EU don’t need a visa to give performances, take part in competitions or promotional activities. If they get paid, they can stay for up to one month, and if they are only claiming expenses or prize money, they can stay for up to six months ...”. Looks like a unilateral concession by the UK government. Anyone know any more?

That is interesting. And if correct, a really nice (and sensible) concession by our govt which will be great for the (currently non existent) UK music scene.

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

No. I said that last year it was postponed (obviously due to the pandemic) and this year if it is possible to go ahead we'll probably get over-looked in favour of a band that doesn't need multiple visas and work permits as well as carnets for all our equipment and merchandise.

Yeah but that's kinda my point. This visa issue is still getting sorted and whilst there are no gigs for a while (as you know I really hope that changes soon) it's simply one that is lower down priority lists of ministers.

I know its a massive issue for us musicians. But right now the govt has got bigger things in its in box. If what @Lardy has just said is correct, that is great. The EU will reciprocate if they know what's good for them. As I mentioned previously, from an economic perspective its the countries where the bands play who are the main beneficiaries of tours and not the bands themselves (apart from the mega stars).

Edited January 13, 2021 by Al Krow

[ambient]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

But in the UK, apparently. Either that or in 2022...

No that's fair, mate. But perhaps also true that anyone planning on a major 2022 tour is likely to have half decent management dealing with the admin side of things and visas are going to be a relatively small item in the scheme of things for bigger bands? What EU venues are seriously currently giving thought to 2022 bookings for smaller bands without admin support, right now?

Haha - she can shout at me anytime she likes 😉

You need to read what a lot of quite successful artists are saying about it. The visa aspect is just one part of many other things that now need to be done. Plus it’s a separate visa for each country.

As far as I’m concerned - and many others - we simply won’t be able to perform abroad anymore. The events we played at simply can’t afford the extra expenditure, or hassle. It’s an extremely selfish act, and to my mind at least, utterly pointless.

Edited January 13, 2021 by ambient

[Al Krow]

Please see my post above re. the economic point: any country that shuts down touring musicians whether it's the UK or the EU are simply shooting themselves in the foot.

Saving lives is quite rightly the focus and priority for everyone, but I have every expectation that sense will prevail on this issue (as it already seems to be doing here from Lardy's comment).