Thomann post Brexit?

[xgsjx]

Has anyone bought from Thomann since Brexit?

What's the delivery time like now?  Their website says 3-6 days via UPS.

[Al Krow]

Try any one of these discussion forums all started in the last 3 weeks...

Thomann and deliveries to the UK - General Discussion - Basschat

Thomann prices? - General Discussion - Basschat

Selling Items to UK now? - General Discussion - Basschat

A post brexit question. - General Discussion - Basschat

Buying from EU private sellers - 20% VAT from 1 Jan 2021 - General Discussion - Basschat

Shipping to Europe - Happy ending - General Discussion - Basschat

 

The answer has gotta be out there somewhere 😂

 

[xgsjx]

I had a quick look before posting too & never saw any of those!  I need to give up the masturbating. 😆

Cheers

[gjones]

2 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I had a quick look before posting too & never saw any of those!  I need to give up the masturbating. 😆

Cheers

There's a topic on that as well.

Edited January 10, 2021 by gjones

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, gjones said:

There's a topic on that as well.

(Also see above). It's the one with the "Happy ending." 

[binky_bass]

2 hours ago, xgsjx said:

I had a quick look before posting too & never saw any of those!  I need to give up the masturbating. 😆

Cheers

I'll give up once I've completed PornHub. 😂

[TheLowDown]

There's 2 real-life case scenarios I want to hear about.:

1) what happens if your spending is a net total equal to or less than £135.

In this case I believe that Thomann calculates the 20% VAT themselves and then adds it on before you pay for it. Brexit is a tariff free deal so there is no 2% tax involved. There may be some courier handing fees and other unknowns to pay.

2) what happens if your spending is a net total greater than £135

20% VAT is paid by the courier and then that is paid by you when you receive your bass.  Again, there is no 2% charge because there are no tariffs.  There may be some courier handing fees and other unknowns to pay in addition to the VAT.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by TheLowDown

[Steve Browning]

5 hours ago, TheLowDown said:

There's 2 real-life case scenarios I want to hear about.:

1) what happens if your spending is a net total equal to or less than £135.

In this case I believe that Thomann calculates the 20% VAT themselves and then adds it on before you pay for it. Brexit is a tariff free deal so there is no 2% tax involved. There may be some courier handing fees and other unknowns to pay.

2) what happens if your spending is a net total greater than £135

20% VAT is paid by the courier and then that is paid by you when you receive your bass.  Again, there is no 2% charge because there are no tariffs.  There may be some courier handing fees and other unknowns to pay in addition to the VAT.

 

 

 

1) Quoting from HMRC

For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we will be moving the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.

The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.

Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT.

For goods sent from overseas and sold directly to UK consumers without OMP involvement, the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC.

2) just a slight amendment. You don't receive your goods until you have settled the charges prior to delivery.

With regard to 1) I can see some issues. You will note that it still expects UK VAT to be charged. The OMP will be expected to register for VAT in the UK (how many will be botherede for these small value sales and all the paperwork necessary in the UK).

Where there is no OMP involvement it reads that the overseas seller must register and account. This could mean that an EU BC'er could hive to register in the UK to charge VAT on their £100 pedal. There is a UK VAT registration threshold of £85k but non-established entities (people overseas) have a nil threshold. Our EU member could be required to register on that basis.

Personally, I think I'd be buying these smaller value things from an established EU seller - if you can. I would imagine that the likes of Thomann will take some time to evaluate whether there is enough of this small business to make it worthwhile.

This is just my interpretation based on what is here, as things have developed.

 

[TheLowDown]

5 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

 

1) Quoting from HMRC

For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we will be moving the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.

The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.

Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT.

For goods sent from overseas and sold directly to UK consumers without OMP involvement, the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC.

2) just a slight amendment. You don't receive your goods until you have settled the charges prior to delivery.

With regard to 1) I can see some issues. You will note that it still expects UK VAT to be charged. The OMP will be expected to register for VAT in the UK (how many will be botherede for these small value sales and all the paperwork necessary in the UK).

Where there is no OMP involvement it reads that the overseas seller must register and account. This could mean that an EU BC'er could hive to register in the UK to charge VAT on their £100 pedal. There is a UK VAT registration threshold of £85k but non-established entities (people overseas) have a nil threshold. Our EU member could be required to register on that basis.

Personally, I think I'd be buying these smaller value things from an established EU seller - if you can. I would imagine that the likes of Thomann will take some time to evaluate whether there is enough of this small business to make it worthwhile.

This is just my interpretation based on what is here, as things have developed.

 

Thanks, Steve. I was hoping for some real life experience of these 2 scenarios so they can reveal what extra costs were involved, if any. This is so that I can decide, from an economic point of view, where it's worth buying a bass between £100 and £135 on it's own, or bulking it up so that it exceeds £135.

Edited January 11, 2021 by TheLowDown

[yorks5stringer]

18 hours ago, xgsjx said:

I had a quick look before posting too & never saw any of those!  I need to give up the masturbating. 😆

Cheers

Good to see the correct use of the word gets it through the profanity filter. Good job you did not say wombling...

[binky_bass]

@TheLowDown - I spoke to Thomann this morning actually, they said that they're currently using UPS for UK deliveries over £135. Their current experience is that UPS are delivering items prior to customs taxes being paid. A week or so after delivery you'll get an invoice from UPS to pay the 20% customs taxes plus a £12 handling fee. Thomann also said that deliveries are currently averaging at 3 - 6 days. 

[TheLowDown]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

plus a £12 handling fee.

Thanks for the update. So it will be around £12 more expensive than before Brexit if buying goods at £135 or above. I don't recall paying any UPS handling fee beforehand when I bought a HB 6 string together with some strings from them.

[binky_bass]

The £12 is the courier's customs and excise handling fee as they have to fill in a bunch of forms and submit it to our lovely Government. So in effect yes, buying from Thomann now will be around £11/£12 dearer per total purchase in excess of £135. From what they told me this morning anyway!!

[yorks5stringer]

18 minutes ago, TheLowDown said:

Thanks for the update. So it will be around £12 more expensive than before Brexit if buying goods at £135 or above. I don't recall paying any UPS handling fee beforehand when I bought a HB 6 string together with some strings from them.

The handling fee is for levying the 20% customs taxes. If you bought a Bass from the USA you would have to pay  a  handling fee to the Courier, irrespective of the customs/vat rate.

 

As above!

Edited January 11, 2021 by yorks5stringer

[TheLowDown]

Thanks guys.

[Graham A]

Interesting thread as i'm having to weigh up whether to order from Thomann's or not.

I've been looking for a left handed Musicman Sterling since the back end of last year. I've tried an number of UK stockists with no success, even the Musicman distributor for the UK says there's no stock in the country, & nothing due in, in 2021.

I even bought a Spector bass just before Xmas, as i'd given up my search, although i sent it back as it just wasn't for me in end.

I've now noticed that the sterling in vintage blue is back in stock at Thomann's, after months of it not being available. I wished it had been in stock prior to Brexit, but that's sod law ( along with being a lefty ).

As was asked before, has anyone had any real life experience of dealing with Thomann since Brexit?

All a bit annoying as i would have already ordered it if we were still in the EU, but i'm slightly waring now in case it ends up in a cold warehouse for days on end before it's finally delivered!! 😭

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Graham A

[Steve Browning]

The long and short of it is will cost you a bit more than before. 

Frankly, if you want it and it may not be available for a while, I would be going ahead. You will pay a few quid more and you will have to wait an extra few days but that could be worth it, in the scheme of things. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Graham A said:

Interesting thread as i'm having to weigh up whether to order from Thomann's or not.

I've been looking for a left handed Musicman Sterling since the back end of last year. I've tried an number of UK stockists with no success, even the Musicman distributor for the UK says there's no stock in the country, & nothing due in, in 2021.

I even bought a Spector bass just before Xmas, as i'd given up my search, although i sent it back as it just wasn't for me in end.

I've now noticed that the sterling in vintage blue is now back in stock at Thomann's, after months of it not being available. I wished it had been in stock prior to Brexit, but that's sod law ( along with being a lefty ).

As was asked before, has anyone had any real life experience of dealing with Thomann since Brexit?

All a bit annoying as i would have already ordered it if we were still in the EU, but i'm slightly waring now in case it ends up in a cold warehouse for days on end before it's finally delivered!! 😭

 

I bought a Stingray 5 HH from them. It took a couple of days to ship as they were busy before Christmas and obviously COVID etc may have impacted service. I got it before Christmas. Within a few days I decided I really don’t like the tone on the newer special (really scooped, even fully boosting the mid doesn’t remove it and didn’t like any of the 5 pickup settings - odd as I had a Sterling 5 HH and liked it), so I asked to return. I got an automatic UPS label, arranged a collection supplying the ref on the label via UPS app (free). UPS collected before Christmas. It nearly got stuck when the French closed the border but made it through and was delivered back to them before the new year. Within a couple of days them of confirming receipt I had a full refund (and didn’t have to pay for the return). I really cannot fault the quality of service offered and once shipping and customs is smoothed out I wouldn’t hesitate to order from them again.

[Graham A]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to sleep on it, but then will more than likely go ahead.....unless it sells out before then!!

If i knew someone in the UK was going to get them in i would wait, but from what distributor has said they don't expect any to hit our shores anytime soon. They rarely come up in the secondhand market for us lefties either, so purchasing new seems to be my only option.

I think the only issue i can see with returning an item to them now is, i would assume, you would get the purchase price back but not the VAT as you would have paid that to a courier, along with your handling fee. I'm not sure how easy it would be claiming the VAT back if you did return it!!

I bought from Thomann before without issue, & as a band we purchased a new mixing desk at the back end of 2019 with no problem. I suppose it's just the whole Brexit thing / jumping into the unknown that's putting me off. 

 

[Al Krow]

Just now, Graham A said:

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to sleep on it, but then will more than likely go ahead.....unless it sells out before then!!

If i knew someone in the UK was going to get them in i would wait, but from what distributor has said they don't expect any to hit our shores anytime soon. They rarely come up in the secondhand market for us lefties either, so purchasing new seems to be my only option.

I think the only issue i can see with returning an item to them now is, i would assume, you would get the purchase price back but not the VAT as you would have paid that to a courier, along with your handling fee. I'm not sure how easy it would be claiming the VAT back if you did return it!!

I bought from Thomann before without issue, & as a band we purchased a new mixing desk at the back end of 2019 with no problem. I suppose it's just the whole Brexit thing / jumping into the unknown that's putting me off. 

 

That is a really good question! Calling @Steve Browning

[Guest]

Thomann seems to have a good stock of Music Man basses - 4 and 5 H and HH and USA Sterling. It’s one of the reasons I originally went with them as I couldn’t find any dealer in the UK with more than a few, and they were all single humbucker models. Personally I much prefer the Sterling (5 string) look with the original scratch plate and surface mounted controls - but you almost never see them for sale here.

[Aidan63]

On 11/01/2021 at 14:02, binky_bass said:

@TheLowDown - I spoke to Thomann this morning actually, they said that they're currently using UPS for UK deliveries over £135. Their current experience is that UPS are delivering items prior to customs taxes being paid. A week or so after delivery you'll get an invoice from UPS to pay the 20% customs taxes plus a £12 handling fee. Thomann also said that deliveries are currently averaging at 3 - 6 days. 

UPS are having their own issues, I've been trying to get my invoice from them (and pay it) for the duty on a shipment of parts from America for my business for over a month, usually the invoice is raised before the goods are even on the plane from the US and I give the driver a cheque when he delivers the package. In this case I have the goods and no idea of when I'll get the bill or what I'll have to pay. They have another package for me from the same US supplier that has been sat at Stansted now for a week (hopefully not in bonded storage with daily charges), it should have been delivered on Monday, no idea when it will arrive. Their customer service team have no more information than I have from the online tracking. The last time I actually got an itemised bill  from UPS over 12 months ago the charge for collecting the tax/duty was £17.95, since early last year the bills have just been a total owing with no breakdown of tax, duty and collection charge. I think the US operation has over time done a phased transfer of the work onto the UK team who have become overwhelmed by working from home, illness, staffing issues, probably system changes and now the changes due to Brexit.

The depots and drivers are still doing their best. The visible online tracking now only gives a brief overview/latest status whereas before you could see exactly what was happening, including the customs clearance and raising of paperwork all the way through the system.

[Graham A]

29 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Thomann seems to have a good stock of Music Man basses - 4 and 5 H and HH and USA Sterling. It’s one of the reasons I originally went with them as I couldn’t find any dealer in the UK with more than a few, and they were all single humbucker models. Personally I much prefer the Sterling (5 string) look with the original scratch plate and surface mounted controls - but you almost never see them for sale here.

That's the reason i was was drawn to Thomann's. I've made enquiries regarding stock coming into the UK this year, with some Musicman distributors & drawn a blank, add into the mix that i'm looking for a left handed model & it gets even harder!!!

25 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

UPS are having their own issues, I've been trying to get my invoice from them (and pay it) for the duty on a shipment of parts from America for my business for over a month, usually the invoice is raised before the goods are even on the plane from the US and I give the driver a cheque when he delivers the package. In this case I have the goods and no idea of when I'll get the bill or what I'll have to pay. They have another package for me from the same US supplier that has been sat at Stansted now for a week (hopefully not in bonded storage with daily charges), it should have been delivered on Monday, no idea when it will arrive. Their customer service team have no more information than I have from the online tracking. The last time I actually got an itemised bill  from UPS over 12 months ago the charge for collecting the tax/duty was £17.95, since early last year the bills have just been a total owing with no breakdown of tax, duty and collection charge. I think the US operation has over time done a phased 've of the work onto the UK team who have become overwhelmed by working from home, illness, staffing issues, probably system changes and now the changes due to Brexit.

The depots and drivers are still doing their best. The visible online tracking now only gives a brief overview/latest status whereas before you could see exactly what was happening, including the customs clearance and raising of paperwork all the way through the system.

😟😟 That doesn't fill me with confidence.

I suppose in the first case at least you received the goods, but as you say you don't know what the final bill will be, or when it'll suddenly land on your doormat... which isn't good. I suppose as a private buyer if you've got your goods you just sit tight & wait. Rubbish for businesses though with cashflow etc to consider!!

The second case is to me my worst case scenario, you buy the bass & it ends up stuck in warehouse with no idea when it's going to be delivered.

Anyone got any good news stories?? 😂

Edited January 13, 2021 by Graham A

[Guest]

I imported a bass from the States that arrived just before the new year. I knew the score so the moment it landed and hit customs I rang them. They calculated the bill (slightly less than I had calculated it, probably down to exchange rates), I paid it, they gave me the reference. It was delivered two days later (although the driver wouldn’t release the goods until I gave him the reference as no-one had told him the charges had been paid). I think they’re doing their best in difficult circumstances.

Their tracking info is sometimes rather vague and often it appears nothing is happening (e.g. the day before it was delivered it said it was still at the airport awaiting customs release - next morning there were four tracking updates including out for delivery, three of them dated the day before!)

[Steve Browning]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

That is a really good question! Calling @Steve Browning

I will look into it tomorrow and post the response. You will get the VAT back but I will check the mechanism.