Thomann post Brexit?

[petecarlton]

OK

Edited May 4, 2021 by petecarlton
In hindsight, I was being snarky.

[jimmyb625]

10 hours ago, petecarlton said:

You would think that was a no-brainer too - the UK must have been their main market (or one of them) after Germany itself.  And it's not as if they had no notice.  Perhaps they're waiting it out in the hope that a more favurable trade deal comes along soon?

I would think they'd be looking at setting up US trades before the UK, as we're pretty insignificant in comparison.

[petecarlton]

Just now, jimmyb625 said:

I would think they'd be looking at setting up US trades before the UK, as we're pretty insignificant in comparison.

Very true - hopefully they'll get around to us soon!

[petecarlton]

2 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

I would think they'd be looking at setting up US trades before the UK, as we're pretty insignificant in comparison.

Mind you, I have no idea how much they sold to the USA, where stuff was probably already pretty cheap from the likes of Sweetwater, Guitar Center and Sam Ash.

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, jimmyb625 said:

I would think they'd be looking at setting up US trades before the UK, as we're pretty insignificant in comparison.

"Insignificant by comparison" is overstating it.

The EU 's two biggest customers (net) are the US with which it has a trade surplus of €150.3 billion, followed by the UK at €110.3 billion. Trade surpluses then fall away pretty rapidly in comparison with these two nations - the next is Switzerland at €33.8 billion. [Source: EU Commission data]

In relation to music products IMO the US is going to be a massively more difficult market for retailers like Thomann to crack compared to taking on the likes of Andertons in the UK, if they were to follow the Music Store / DV247 model and set up a UK branch to take the hassle out of purchases for UK consumers.

[Cat Burrito]

From a moderating perspective I have hidden a few posts (some a bit contentious and others not doing anything wrong but referencing the contentious posts). No warnings at this stage.

This is a topic that is going to generate differences of opinion and there is a 100% chance someone on here won't share your views.

Keep it civil. Use the ignore feature if someone else's views make you want to do this but it's ignore, not publicly announce that you are ignoring someone! A lot of us use overseas sellers so it is an important topic and it would be good if we can keep this thread running.

 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

The EU 's two biggest customers (net) are the US with which it has a trade surplus of €150.3 billion, followed by the UK at €110.3 billion. Trade surpluses then fall away pretty rapidly in comparison with these two nations - the next is Switzerland at €33.8 billion. [Source: EU Commission data]

I would agree, but for a music store (as Al also said) I don't think that the US is going to be that much of a market, compared to the other side of europe. Having said that, it overlooks the obvious that the largest market by probably an order of magnitude of the EUs products is the EU, and I assume that is also thommans biggest market. Effectively second hand trades in more common instruments has been shut down between the EU and UK, so it only really confirms new items.

Thomman are pretty big and 5 months in they haven't introduced a scheme to collect vat, so I assume that means they don't really want to for some reason,  rather than not beaing able to. They have obviously looked at their figures and decided it isn't worth it for whatever reason.. Also maybe now we are a new terrtory it means they aren't able to sell somethings here. I would have probably bought a ric from them if we had still been in a customs union.

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

I would agree, but for a music store (as Al also said) I don't think that the US is going to be that much of a market, compared to the other side of europe. Having said that, it overlooks the obvious that the largest market by probably an order of magnitude of the EUs products is the EU, and I assume that is also thommans biggest market. Effectively second hand trades in more common instruments has been shut down between the EU and UK, so it only really confirms new items.

Thomman are pretty big and 5 months in they haven't introduced a scheme to collect vat, so I assume that means they don't really want to for some reason,  rather than not beaing able to. They have obviously looked at their figures and decided it isn't worth it for whatever reason.. Also maybe now we are a new terrtory it means they aren't able to sell somethings here. I would have probably bought a ric from them if we had still been in a customs union.

Most likely covid has slowed the wheels.

Amazon collects GST for NZ with a click. I guess Kiwi shoppers buy with intent and much consideration making returns not a thing?

[stewblack]

I made the last of my last Harley Benton patch cables last night. 

There were tears. 

[jimmyb625]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

"Insignificant by comparison" is overstating it.

The EU 's two biggest customers (net) are the US with which it has a trade surplus of €150.3 billion, followed by the UK at €110.3 billion. Trade surpluses then fall away pretty rapidly in comparison with these two nations - the next is Switzerland at €33.8 billion. [Source: EU Commission data]

In relation to music products IMO the US is going to be a massively more difficult market for retailers like Thomann to crack compared to taking on the likes of Andertons in the UK, if they were to follow the Music Store / DV247 model and set up a UK branch to take the hassle out of purchases for UK consumers.

However, those figures don't relate to musical instrument sales, despite the best efforts of the Basschat massive.

Thomann already ship into the US, so they'll know what is worth their time and effort. With the ongoing struggles for the likes of Guitar Centre, they may be biding their time.

Given that they've not set up anything with the UK yet, it looks like it might not be worth it for them. It's also causing problems the other way, as the recent posts from Andertons show.

Pure speculation though.

[Al Krow]

54 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Most likely covid has slowed the wheels.

Amazon collects GST for NZ with a click. I guess Kiwi shoppers buy with intent and much consideration making returns not a thing?

Returns are a killer for retailers' margins, so you guys are going to be very welcome customers then! 

[petecarlton]

Just had this in an email from Thomann:

We do understand that our UK customers would rather make one single payment for the total amount, so we are happy to inform you that we will shortly be introducing door-to-door pricing whereby the price on our website will be inclusive of VAT and the additional handling fees outlined above. We hope to implement this in the coming weeks and our website will be updated accordingly.

 

So I guess that's progress, of a sort. 

[stewblack]

3 hours ago, petecarlton said:

Just had this in an email from Thomann:

We do understand that our UK customers would rather make one single payment for the total amount, so we are happy to inform you that we will shortly be introducing door-to-door pricing whereby the price on our website will be inclusive of VAT and the additional handling fees outlined above. We hope to implement this in the coming weeks

Good news! 

[Downunderwonder]

9 hours ago, petecarlton said:

Just had this in an email from Thomann:

We do understand that our UK customers would rather make one single payment for the total amount, so we are happy to inform you that we will shortly be introducing door-to-door pricing whereby the price on our website will be inclusive of VAT and the additional handling fees outlined above. We hope to implement this in the coming weeks and our website will be updated accordingly.

 

So I guess that's progress, of a sort. 

So every shipment has to clear customs with associated fees? Given that the UK is big enough to support more than a couple of big online players I think they will struggle to be competitive.

[Jonesy]

Apologies for the potentially stupid question.......does this mean there'll be no extra costs incurred when buying from Thomann once they start collecting the 20% VAT? 

Has anyone bought anything over £135 from other retailers doing the same? I have my eye on a bass from Bax and notice they include VAT, so am just wondering if there'll likely be any extra costs involved?

[petecarlton]

1 minute ago, Jonesy said:

does this mean there'll be no extra costs incurred when buying from Thomann once they start collecting the 20% VAT?

I don't think there'll be any extra costs from Thomann themselves - the website price will include VAT and handling, so it should be the price you pay: nothing else.  But they're not there yet!

I've ordered a product at £216 pre VAT and handling, and I reckon it's going to be £274.72, as against the old potential price of £256.80 (i.e purchase price including VAT), which means the additional handling fee will effectively be £17.92.  That's not exactly earthshaking - perhaps we can call it the price of Brexit (no trolling intended!).  Certainly manageable, given that I can't get the product anywhere else and - even if I could - it would probably be more expensive.

But I was never great at maths!

[Jonesy]

That makes sense that there isn't any additional charge. Admittedly, I have zero knowledge on how this all works, but if I've paid the VAT on purchase then I can't see how I'd have to pay any other handling costs. I might give Bax a shout and see if they can confirm it!

[Woodinblack]

5 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

. I might give Bax a shout and see if they can confirm it!

I have ordered from bax in the last few months over the £135. The price had vat on the website, I paid that price, it was sent from Holland and arrived a few days later, no additional costs

[Dad3353]

5 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

That makes sense that there isn't any additional charge. Admittedly, I have zero knowledge on how this all works, but if I've paid the VAT on purchase then I can't see how I'd have to pay any other handling costs. I might give Bax a shout and see if they can confirm it!

It's really quite simple for most things we're likely to buy. There's the cost of the item itself, then shipping, then VAT, then any handling charge, then import duty. Which of these apply and at what rate, depend on what the item is, and the country they're coming from.

[Jonesy]

Sounds easy as pie then.....🤔😂

[petecarlton]

1 hour ago, Jonesy said:

That makes sense that there isn't any additional charge. Admittedly, I have zero knowledge on how this all works, but if I've paid the VAT on purchase then I can't see how I'd have to pay any other handling costs. I might give Bax a shout and see if they can confirm it!

I think the other costs would be UPS's - back in the day, Thomann used to swallow the delivery charge over a certain purchase price,

[petecarlton]

52 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

Sounds easy as pie then.....🤔😂

We'll see...

[peteb]

On 12/05/2021 at 16:06, petecarlton said:

Just had this in an email from Thomann:

We do understand that our UK customers would rather make one single payment for the total amount, so we are happy to inform you that we will shortly be introducing door-to-door pricing whereby the price on our website will be inclusive of VAT and the additional handling fees outlined above. We hope to implement this in the coming weeks and our website will be updated accordingly.

 

So I guess that's progress, of a sort. 

Does anyone know when Thomann are going to start doing this? 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, peteb said:

Does anyone know when Thomann are going to start doing this? 

The ultimate step would be prepaid Duty and VAT into the UK via a UK arm, and allowing returns to a UK drop-off, so the customer doesn’t have to manage the hassle of trying to engage with a courier and the HMRC to reclaim duty and VAT. The main issue currently is that the buyer becomes the importer, which isn’t a great experience. Only Thomann knows whether it’s economically worthwhile to do so, but given that they have a UK bank account for bank transfer payments and are planning the above, it would be ideal as they’re so much larger than any UK retailers and therefore have access to stock that’s hard to come by in the UK - and more often than not a but cheaper on the pricey stuff.

As I’ve mentioned before, until returns are viable their guarantee on higher value items is worth nothing to me.

[peteb]

14 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

The ultimate step would be prepaid Duty and VAT into the UK via a UK arm, and allowing returns to a UK drop-off, so the customer doesn’t have to manage the hassle of trying to engage with a courier and the HMRC to reclaim duty and VAT. The main issue currently is that the buyer becomes the importer, which isn’t a great experience. Only Thomann knows whether it’s economically worthwhile to do so, but given that they have a UK bank account for bank transfer payments and are planning the above, it would be ideal as they’re so much larger than any UK retailers and therefore have access to stock that’s hard to come by in the UK - and more often than not a but cheaper on the pricey stuff.

As I’ve mentioned before, until returns are viable their guarantee on higher value items is worth nothing to me.

The point is that Thomann have already said that they will "shortly be introducing door-to-door pricing whereby the price on our website will be inclusive of VAT and the additional handling fees". 

My question is does anyone here know when they intend to start doing this?