Mesa Boogie sold, Ashdown, Trace Elliott rumours?

[Rich]

On 17/01/2021 at 22:12, lemmywinks said:

I'm guessing you know perfectly well what they make, you can always check on their website if not though. Their range of amps, cabs and combos

 

I've just checked the website, as you suggested. Their "range of amps, cabs and combos" appears to be a range of ONE tiny amp, two preamp pedals (one of which isn't even for bass), two tiny cabs and a pair of combos featuring the aforementioned tiny amp mated with the aforementioned tiny cabs.  I can't think of another bass amp manufacturer whose range is so pitifully limited. 

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

 I can't think of another bass amp manufacturer whose range is so pitifully limited. 

"Range?" Sorry, just to confirm that word again. "RANGE?!!" Trace Elliot have a sad window corner in crack converters where their new products (sorry - range) is covered in dust because nobody wants it.

The 12 band Peavey era was great. This new stuff is pish.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

I've just checked the website, as you suggested. Their "range of amps, cabs and combos" appears to be a range of ONE tiny amp, two preamp pedals (one of which isn't even for bass), two tiny cabs and a pair of combos featuring the aforementioned tiny amp mated with the aforementioned tiny cabs.  I can't think of another bass amp manufacturer whose range is so pitifully limited. 

 

It's what they want to produce and they seem pretty successful. I must have missed the memo that said the amount of different products = better quality, there's something to be said for a bit of focus IMO, besides Peavey already make larger amps under their own brand name. They do a modular rig for a variety of gigs, a small combo for acoustic/cafe gigs and a preamp for people who don't even want to use an amp, seems pretty comprehensive to me and would suit a wide variety of people as evidenced by folk on this very forum happily using and recommending them. Like I said, it aint the 80s any more, the TE brand has moved with the times and their fans should be glad of that as it's this or nothing I think, whether we like it or not their main market is going to be the USA and the wants of a small niche of British players in their 50s slapping out cheesy Mark King lines isn't going to be a consideration for them.

 

Besides you can still gig the preamp pedal with a lightweight powered cab of your choosing and have a modern rig that sounds like the old stuff, if I wanted that sound then that's what I'd do. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by lemmywinks

[Downunderwonder]

There isn't a big market for stadium stage rigs any more. PA systems in clubs have gotten ridiculous and local bars don't want the doors blown out any longer.

Stacking two of the 208 cabs they can take a bigger amp than the Elf and be as loud as the drummer. Bring on the 500w Gnome.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

the wants of a small niche of British players in their 50s slapping out cheesy Mark King lines isn't going to be a consideration for them.

 

Interesting that you assume everyone who loves the old TE sound is a King-obsessed slap monster. Not the case at all, I can assure you. 

[40hz]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

Interesting that you assume everyone who loves the old TE sound is a King-obsessed slap monster. Not the case at all, I can assure you. 

Quite right. Trace Elliot to me (a 34 year old) is Stuart Zender and Kim Deal.

[lemmywinks]

17 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Quite right. Trace Elliot to me (a 34 year old) is Stuart Zender and Kim Deal.

 

AFAIK Stuart Zender didn't use amps in the studio and used a variety of different amps live, all his TE were valve jobbies too weren't they? Plus his technique, basses (there's a lot of the Warwick tone in those recordings) and effects all play a much larger part in his sound. You aren't getting close to those CDs by sticking your bass into a TE pre bolted to a class D amp, not even ballpark and you'd be better off getting a Helix rather than dreaming about TE if you want to cop that tone. In fact for most players if you want to emulate their recorded sound or an aspect of it then the amp is the last thing you consider.

As for Kim Deal's sound I won't pass comment there 😂

[Wolverinebass]

13 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Quite right. Trace Elliot to me (a 34 year old) is Stuart Zender and Kim Deal.

Exactly. I'm in my early 40s and associate Trace with John Entwistle due to him using the V8, MP11, poweramps and TVT9 preamp.

I think it's being suggested we should only associate Trace with Mike Kroeger of Nickelback or Mark King or whomever we shouldn't like.

I'm not a slap monster. Definitely not one of those 50 year old Mark King fans that have paid kept Status graphite in the black for the last 20 years. "New, marginally tweaked Kingbass!! Bendwell!! 16.5mm string spacing!!! Set up like Mark!!! Listen to me play Mr Pink on it!!!" 

Not me. Sorry.

[lemmywinks]

22 minutes ago, Rich said:

Interesting that you assume everyone who loves the old TE sound is a King-obsessed slap monster. Not the case at all, I can assure you. 

 

Not really, just people stuck in an era and bemoaning why a company who have modernised a dead brand aren't catering to their specific niches.

 

All TE are is a bought and sold brand name, nothing more. It's being used to sell things Peavey don't want under their main line and are doing a pretty good job of it IMO, definitely offering something different that seems to be pretty popular.. As I said it's not like they aren't producing a separate preamp anyway, if you like the sound of it then buy one and use it with whatever kit you want.

[40hz]

10 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

AFAIK Stuart Zender didn't use amps in the studio and used a variety of different amps live, all his TE were valve jobbies too weren't they? Plus his technique, basses (there's a lot of the Warwick tone in those recordings) and effects all play a much larger part in his sound. You aren't getting close to those CDs by sticking your bass into a TE pre bolted to a class D amp, not even ballpark and you'd be better off getting a Helix rather than dreaming about TE if you want to cop that tone. In fact for most players if you want to emulate their recorded sound or an aspect of it then the amp is the last thing you consider.

As for Kim Deal's sound I won't pass comment there 😂

I wasn't referring to Zenders studio tone. More his live rig. I know studio tones are rarely anything to do with the amp.

I also don't think it's fair to denigrate players and sounds you personally may not like. I happen to think Kim Deal is a wonderful player and had a great live tone myself.

[Rich]

For me, the classic TE sound, the one I love, isn't Mark King or Ox or Zender or any of those. It's the sound *I* got from *MY* Trace SMX head back in the day. And when I say 'in the day', I'm not talking about the bloody 80s. I couldn't afford a Trace then.

[Deedee]

There’s been some absolute shite spoken here about TE.

Not everyone who likes/liked them was a slap monster. It boils my gypsy's kiss when people  assume every TE user EVER just pushed the pre-shape button and went on a Level 42 fest.

I also suspect there was more than just a “minority” of users who remember them fondly. Yes, amp design and technology has moved on and users would perhaps choose something different nowadays, but that wouldn’t change their opinion of what they thought of them back in the day. It was/remains top quality kit.

The frustration amongst those who do fondly remember them is that the owners of the brand haven’t kept it at the forefront of the changes. No one’s asking for them to start remaking 20kg heads, just to keep the brand alive and moving with today’s technology.

Rant over 😡

[lemmywinks]

7 minutes ago, Deedee said:

The frustration amongst those who do fondly remember them is that the owners of the brand haven’t kept it at the forefront of the changes. No one’s asking for them to start remaking 20kg heads, just to keep the brand alive and moving with today’s technology.

But they have done this though, Peavey have created a versatile lineup which caters for a wide range of gigs and also make the preamp floor unit for the increasing amount of players who don't use a traditional amp at all. The people moaning are the ones that want the old style preamp frontend bolted to a class D power section, apparently that would be a good seller for Peavey in 2021 😂 What I was saying is that times have changed and Peavey have done well to make the brand relevant again after a quarter century of TE amps selling for peanuts on eBay because nobody wants them. 

[lemmywinks]

2 hours ago, 40hz said:

I wasn't referring to Zenders studio tone. More his live rig. I know studio tones are rarely anything to do with the amp.

I also don't think it's fair to denigrate players and sounds you personally may not like. I happen to think Kim Deal is a wonderful player and had a great live tone myself.

You probably weren't hearing much of his amp live either unless it was a pretty intimate venue. Also he was using all valve Trace stuff (V6/V8?) which sounds completely different to their regular gear so you wouldn't get close to that with a modern class D TE anyway.

[Deedee]

11 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

But they have done this though, Peavey have created a versatile lineup which caters for a wide range of gigs and also make the preamp floor unit for the increasing amount of players who don't use a traditional amp at all. The people moaning are the ones that want the old style preamp frontend bolted to a class D power section, apparently that would be a good seller for Peavey in 2021 😂 What I was saying is that times have changed and Peavey have done well to make the brand relevant again after a quarter century of TE amps selling for peanuts on eBay because nobody wants them. 

You’re right, Peavey have created a versatile lineup, but the TE brand is a ridiculously small part of that. 

Your comment that they’ve made them relevant again is my whole point. Why did they become irrelevant? Because the company that owned the brand decided to stop investing in the brand and stopped badging amps as TE.

In any other business such a widely recognised and respected brand would be protected and built upon. But they don’t seem to be keen to do that.

[Downunderwonder]

The Transit floor preamp is a pretty big leap into Newville for leaning heavily on the SMX heritage of the dual compression with the addition of a blended overdrive, which was the only thing missing from the SMX.

Peavey have hinted at a simple power engine or more powerful Elf like head being developed but the existing new Trace Elliot line has all made it to market at a glacial pace all the way along so don't hold your breath.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Deedee said:

You’re right, Peavey have created a versatile lineup, but the TE brand is a ridiculously small part of that. 

Your comment that they’ve made them relevant again is my whole point. Why did they become irrelevant? Because the company that owned the brand decided to stop investing in the brand and stopped badging amps as TE.

In any other business such a widely recognised and respected brand would be protected and built upon. But they don’t seem to be keen to do that.

They became irrelevant because Kaman sold the company in the late 90s and it eventually ended up with the dreaded Gibson and their obsession with stagnation and closures, couple that with increased competition and consumer choice - SWR, Ashdown and Hartke were all popular around here in the early 2000s with SWR being the amp you wanted - and they were never going to last. I moved from TE to USA Hartke gear at the time and I wasn't alone. I don't know precisely when Peavey came into ownership but they aren't responsible for the fall of TE at all.

[40hz]

8 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

You probably weren't hearing much of his amp live either unless it was a pretty intimate venue. Also he was using all valve Trace stuff (V6/V8?) which sounds completely different to their regular gear so you wouldn't get close to that with a modern class D TE anyway.

That's not strictly true. The valve stuff came very late in the day in his Jamiroquai tenure. He was using standard AH series heads live and in the studio all the way up to 96ish.

I don't agree with it being an brand of a specific decade. If anything I'd say Trace weren't just 80's amps, but 90s too.

People are still using them, much in the same way people still use SVTs. Do we call people who use SVTs 'stuck in the 70s' or even as a more modern example, do we call people who use Markbass,  stuck in the 00's? A good amp is a good amp regardless of when it came out. I use a Mesa Boogie M-Pulse 600 from 2006/7 and it makes absolute mincemeat of anything I've owned including a multitude of 'modern' amps.

My point is, Trace are extremely famous. Known the world over to bass players irrespective of your age. They pretty much owned the bass market for 20 years and then were mothballed. They were THE amp. Peavey allowed it to stagnate and almost die out to terrible product management and lack of interest in developing the brand, and, IMO they're still not doing it right. Their current offerings I would argue have limited appeal. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by 40hz

[Merton]

Not strictly true... Gibson killed Trace in the early 2000s. Peavey rescued them and originally released a range of 7- and 12-band amps etc around 2005, which they kept going til around 2012ish. IIRC back then they were slated for NOT trying something new and cutting edge*.

Yes there was a brief period then where the brand didn’t seem to have anything new to offer but we now have the Elf etc. I’d say Peavey have actually handled the brand quite well in recent years with the reboot. Sure, the range is limited and we would all love to see some bigger powered heads and an SMX style preamp but maybe that’s all in development, or maybe Peavey have just aimed this range at those looking to downsize and/or use in-ears.

Trouble with a brand like this is that there’s so much affection for the older classic stuff that Peavey are almost damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

*not that I’m calling the “range” cutting edge btw... there’s still some work to do To get to that haha. But I see this set of gear as aimed purely at those looking to downsize and/or use in-ears. Which let’s face it, is becoming the norm more and more...

Edited January 24, 2021 by Merton

[lemmywinks]

38 minutes ago, 40hz said:

That's not strictly true. The valve stuff came very late in the day in his Jamiroquai tenure. He was using standard AH series heads live and in the studio all the way up to 96ish.

I don't agree with it being an brand of a specific decade. If anything I'd say Trace weren't just 80's amps, but 90s too.

People are still using them, much in the same way people still use SVTs. Do we call people who use SVTs 'stuck in the 70s' or even as a more modern example, do we call people who use Markbass,  stuck in the 00's? A good amp is a good amp regardless of when it came out. I use a Mesa Boogie M-Pulse 600 from 2006/7 and it makes absolute mincemeat of anything I've owned including a multitude of 'modern' amps.

My point is, Trace are extremely famous. Known the world over to bass players irrespective of your age. They pretty much owned the bass market for 20 years and then were mothballed. They were THE amp. Peavey allowed it to stagnate and almost die out to terrible product management and lack of interest in developing the brand, and, IMO they're still not doing it right. Their current offerings I would argue have limited appeal. 

This is very UK centric and I think massively overestimates the global popularity and legendary status of TE. They aren't on SVT levels at all and checking sold listings on eBay will tell you all you need to know about how desirable they are. In no way did they dominate Ampeg etc in the USA which makes the UK seem like nothing in terms of sales. The point about them being stuck in an era wasn't questioning how good they sound or how usable they are today, it was simply saying that with the amount of choice people have now they are just not particularly desirable which again if you look at eBay prices is hard to argue against. They had their day and the market has spoken - nobody wants those old TE amps any more.

 

As I said in the post above reducing their decline to Peavey taking ownership at their peak and letting them rot is just not true, they were on the slide and factories were closed long before ownership was finally transferred to Peavey in 2005. 

[40hz]

9 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

This is very UK centric and I think massively overestimates the global popularity and legendary status of TE. They aren't on SVT levels at all and checking sold listings on eBay will tell you all you need to know about how desirable they are. In no way did they dominate Ampeg etc in the USA which makes the UK seem like nothing in terms of sales. The point about them being stuck in an era wasn't questioning how good they sound or how usable they are today, it was simply saying that with the amount of choice people have now they are just not particularly desirable which again if you look at eBay prices is hard to argue against. They had their day and the market has spoken - nobody wants those old TE amps any more.

 

As I said in the post above reducing their decline to Peavey taking ownership at their peak and letting them rot is just not true, they were on the slide and factories were closed long before ownership was finally transferred to Peavey in 2005. 

Outside of valve amps, does anyone want anything from that era at all? I don't think that's specific to Trace.

I didn't say they were equal in status to Ampeg amps or SVTs. Simply that you can't deride an amp from being from a certain era.

[Doddy]

23 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 They had their day and the market has spoken - nobody wants those old TE amps any more.

I think the reason why nobody wants the old Trace Elliot amps now has nothing to do with how they sound.  Most of the players who remember, and used, the old amps are now around 40+ and want lighter gear. How many times do you see posts talking about wanting basses under 8lbs, or small lightweight cabs? The old Trace stuff is heavy.

Younger players are generally unaware of the brand because they have come up at a time where companies like Mark Bass, TC Electronic, Ashdown, and even Hartke have been popular. None of the hip players use Trace Elliot now. Amps like Trace and SWR aren't even on their radar.

I think if Peavey were to bring back the old Trace preamp with a class D poweramp, they would be onto a winner. The older guys (who are a massive market) would buy them because they want that sound, and younger guys would become aware of the brand and it's legacy.

[EBS_freak]

I think it was this concert that first put Trace on my radar (apart from seeing it in the shops). Yeah, I remember Trace being in the shops but not really registering much with live use. I think it was pretty much limited to Level 42, Jamiroquai and Tony Levin. Bizarrely enough, having the catalogues and coveting a Trace Rig and flicking through to the valve heads, I remember looking at them and I can't actually remember seeing anybody else using one apart from the Indie band, Baby Bird... I think that was the near the end of Trace era though.

For me, it was still Ampeg and SWR that seemed to be the most dominant out there... but all these brands were well beyond my means. I was still coveting half working Selmer Treble and Bass heads with any cabs that I could get my hands on.

When I did get my first Trace rig, it was OK at best, certainly not of the mystique it seems to be held with - but then again, when they first arrived on the scene, I can see why they caused a stir.

Edited January 24, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Cuzzie]

I’ll always associate Trace Elliot with Doug Wimbish - pretty sure he is still using them

[Al Krow]

24 minutes ago, Doddy said:

I think the reason why nobody wants the old Trace Elliot amps now has nothing to do with how they sound.  Most of the players who remember, and used, the old amps are now around 40+ and want lighter gear. How many times do you see posts talking about wanting basses under 8lbs, or small lightweight cabs? The old Trace stuff is heavy.

Younger players are generally unaware of the brand because they have come up at a time where companies like Mark Bass, TC Electronic, Ashdown, and even Hartke have been popular. None of the hip players use Trace Elliot now. Amps like Trace and SWR aren't even on their radar.

I think if Peavey were to bring back the old Trace preamp with a class D poweramp, they would be onto a winner. The older guys (who are a massive market) would buy them because they want that sound, and younger guys would become aware of the brand and it's legacy.

Agreed with first two points. But not sure about the your final one about it being a winner. For a start exactly what sound would it be delivering with a D class power amp and how would it differ from other already established products with loyal followers? 

Peavey will have done their market research and almost certainly have a better clue about this than most of us.