Mesa Boogie sold, Ashdown, Trace Elliott rumours?

[thodrik]

3 hours ago, agedhorse said:

there were stumbles in the execution throughout the company's life that resulted in reoccurring reliability issues that required a significant amount of correction. 

I certainly agree with this statement.

My first 'proper' amp was a Trace Elliot combo that just completely failed. It was under warranty so I got it sent away for repair. Trace Elliot actually sent me a brand new unit along with an official 'Notice of Fault' for the old unit which was provided a a one word explanation for the fault, 'DEATH'. This was in about 1999. The replacement unit worked for years without issue until I sold it in 2016. 

I also had issues with the Peavey era cabinets, as I bought a 2x10 which arrived with a speaker which hadn't been properly fitted into the basket and a 1x15 which arrived with the screws for the rubber feet already coming loose. Both were easy fixes for me but it did rankle me that I was paying a premium for cabinets which didn't look like they had gone through the proper quality control before being boxed and shipped. These cabinets were made in the UK, so perhaps quality control improved when production shipped to the US. 

[Wolverinebass]

After all this, can we all just agree that the Elf is awful?

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

After all this, can we all just agree that the Elf is awful?

Not sure - isn't it something very useful to have in a gig bag in case your amp dies? OK, might never happen, but if it does you would be happy for it.

[Jakester]

On 24/01/2021 at 10:55, Cuzzie said:

I’ll always associate Trace Elliot with Doug Wimbish - pretty sure he is still using them

I went to see Doug and Will Calhoun at a Bass Direct clinic in 2009 - he had a mahoozive stack of Trace Gear and it was, by far and away, the loudest thing I've ever been to! 

[Wolverinebass]

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Not sure - isn't it something very useful to have in a gig bag in case your amp dies? OK, might never happen, but if it does you would be happy for it.

I'm not spending £350 on an underpowered matchbox on what might happen. Then you have the double frustration of you can't turn up to the same level because it has zero oomph. If I get a spare, it'd be a better amp than that.

[EBS_freak]

32 minutes ago, thodrik said:

I certainly agree with this statement.

My first 'proper' amp was a Trace Elliot combo that just completely failed. It was under warranty so I got it sent away for repair. Trace Elliot actually sent me a brand new unit along with an official 'Notice of Fault' for the old unit which was provided a a one word explanation for the fault, 'DEATH'. This was in about 1999. The replacement unit worked for years without issue until I sold it in 2016. 

I also had issues with the Peavey era cabinets, as I bought a 2x10 which arrived with a speaker which hadn't been properly fitted into the basket and a 1x15 which arrived with the screws for the rubber feet already coming loose. Both were easy fixes for me but it did rankle me that I was paying a premium for cabinets which didn't look like they had gone through the proper quality control before being boxed and shipped. These cabinets were made in the UK, so perhaps quality control improved when production shipped to the US. 

Crumbs - after reading that, I realised that my first Trace head didn't do too well either. Played it in the shop - and the thing was fine. Got it home, was good for about half an hour, then blew a fuse. Thing went back to the shop and I was given a Warwick combo for a loaner (I was a bit miffed given I had just shelled out a load of money and couldn't get a replacement TE unit from the vendor since it had died literally the same day...). A completely new unit was delivered back to me eventually - after about a month - and it remained with me until I sold it and a matching 1048H (that seemed to weight as much as the sun) to some bloke in Wales. I didn't miss it and I certainly wouldn't be caught up in some sort of nostalgia thing because compared to todays offering, they are pretty pants.

[EBS_freak]

12 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I'm not spending £350 on an underpowered matchbox on what might happen. Then you have the double frustration of you can't turn up to the same level because it has zero oomph. If I get a spare, it'd be a better amp than that.

Like a used Genz for example, that you can leave under your car seat.

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I'm not spending £350 on an underpowered matchbox on what might happen. Then you have the double frustration of you can't turn up to the same level because it has zero oomph. If I get a spare, it'd be a better amp than that.

It's only underpowered for those who need crushing volume. The people that buy them seem by and large to be quite happy with them. 

[la bam]

I bought an elf. Like others I thought itd be great as a backup or emergency amp......

However, as soon as I realised i wouldnt be able to gig with it as my main amp, it started dawning on me that it would be no use as a backup should I ever need it.

Unfortunate, because it was innovative, small, good sound, good DI, but just not enough. I can see it being more than fine in small venues and pubs etc though.

Edited January 26, 2021 by la bam

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Downunderwonder said:

It's only underpowered for those who need crushing volume. The people that buy them seem by and large to be quite happy with them. 

I guess - for me, it'll be a practice amp or coffee shop amp... and for that, it's quite cool and cute I guess.

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

I guess - for me, it'll be a practice amp or coffee shop amp... and for that, it's quite cool and cute I guess.

I have a TC Electronic BAM200, which sits above my EVO IV 600 connected to my BC speaker that I use in the house, it is perfect for that. No, I couldn't gig it but it was £85 new and it is the best practice amp I have, far better than the PJ combo and even the bose S1 that preceded it (the bose is still there for vocals).

[EBS_freak]

The BAM200 is quite a bit (a lot) cheaper than the Elf too. Maybe the TE name justifies that.... or not?

[Chienmortbb]

All true although my knowledge of Trace was confined to the BLX130 a small combo that weighed as much as a small house. However it was well designed and well built and did what was expected of it. I suspect the amp was the same design  as the higher powered variants as it had space on the PCB for an extra aet of output mosfets. Having seen inside the bass offerings  from big companies from both sides of the pond Trace were a cut above. (They also looked cool at the time). The only real bass amp maker I knew at the time were Ampeg and although I expect some flamimg for this, they looked like they had been built in a shed from surplus components.

In fact the treal surprise is that Ampeg survived the various sell-ons and is still around today. However there was no magic in Trace Ellioit. We have moved on 30 years and both tastes and technologies have changed. AShdown are a worthy successor to Trace and although I will fondly remember my BLX130 my back says no.

47 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

You are absolutely right - in the UK, the SS amps that you were going through were generally pants HH, scrap heap junk stuff. So Trace, being able to deliver "normally" was a bit of a novelty... And lets not forget, these Trace watts were normally demonstrated with multiple cabs... moving a lot of air... so yes, these Trace amps sounded massive to that 1x15 crackly piece of junk that it was being pitted against.

To be fair to HH the amp's were very good for their time and the basic design of the later HH Mosfet amps were the same building blocks as those used in the Trace mosfet output stages. Although again being fair, both probaby owed a lot to the Hitachi reference designs of the time.

HH were built like the proverbial  brick outhouse with military grade wiring harnesses and were conservatively rated. I  still have two from the early 70s and both have only had their pots replaced.  The electroluminescent panels were great and the only downside was the perspex/plexiglass fascias. The cabs were quirky but not very good though.

[grandad]

200 watts is roughly 1/4 horsepower. Mine's the TC BH250. 250 watts being quite sufficient for my needs.

That's got to be 1 donkeypower at the very least.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by grandad

[Wolverinebass]

17 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Like a used Genz for example, that you can leave under your car seat.

I was thinking a reidmar funnily enough.

[Wolverinebass]

19 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

It's only underpowered for those who need crushing volume. The people that buy them seem by and large to be quite happy with them. 

At the last SE Bash we had one hooked up to a Vanderkley 2x10. By the time a decent volume was attained the red light was on constantly and there was some obvious compression artefacts.

It's a jazz gig amp. 

[EBS_freak]

Ampeg always had a bit of a head start 

7 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I was thinking a reidmar funnily enough.

I was always disappointed with the form factor of the Reidmar. Not really dinky enough. Great sounding amp though.

[la bam]

1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said:

At the last SE Bash we had one hooked up to a Vanderkley 2x10. By the time a decent volume was attained the red light was on constantly and there was some obvious compression artefacts.

It's a jazz gig amp. 

That's were the concept falls down for me. Putting a tiny, small powered amp through a small 8ohm 2x10 in a large room is never going to get loud.

You kinda need a large 4ohm cab (410) to get loud volume and max power from it. Then you're bringing a larger heavier cab to save a tiny amount of weight and size on an amp head. Itd be more efficient to bring a larger amp and smaller cab (2x10, 2x12 etc).

I played the elf through a 30kg ashdown 2x12 cab and it only just coped (luckily we always di'd too). It was much quieter than a 3kg 500w head through a 1x12 cab. But, a band we gig shared with played an elf through a 4x10 old trace cab (DI'd) and it sounded awesome. But he had to lug around 40kg of cab around. Made no sense.

However if trace developed a lightweight 410 and incorporated the head into a combo it would work much better.

Edited January 26, 2021 by la bam

[TheGreek]

54 minutes ago, la bam said:

However if trace developed a lightweight 410 and incorporated the head into a combo it would work much better.

...but that would require some commitment to developing the brand - not sure that Peavey are doing that.

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

...but that would require some commitment to developing the brand - not sure that Peavey are doing that.

I can see why they wouldn't though. Small, dinky, cheap is appealing. And given the pandemic, the sales of big rigs are probably screwed for a while. The Elf may shift due to people having money burning a hole in their pocket and being stuck at home.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Jus Lukin said:

The issue with the previous Trace relaunch for me was that it came once the lightweight revolution had already occurred, but they stuck with monstrous rigs and combos, which had been superseded in practicality by that point, and they were priced very high indeed. I'm not much of a businessman, but even at the time it felt like a bit of a misfire.

See, this a very interesting observation to me.

When I was using EBS and helping out at the shows and stuff, I used to literally scream at them, they need a lightweight, tiny head to go up against Markbass and the emerging small heads. EBS at the time simply weren't interested. They eventually caved, about 6 years later... with the Reidmar - which despite being an awesome amp, hasn't got the same small factor appeal.

Their best selling amp at the time was the Classic 450, a big retro 14kg head. They were shifting loads of their gear in Sweden, Germany and along with growing sales in the US where the TD650 was where it was at. Their stuff, especially the Classic 450 and their valve amp (T90) was literally doing nothing in the UK because everybody wanted portable. Pretty much only the HD350 was selling in the UK, albeit in small numbers. According to their sales figures, these heavyweight amps (and bigger cabs) were selling great in their homeland and Germany... just not in the UK.

So if you look at Peavey and their immediate demographic, where the Americans love big and heavy, maybe it made sense for them to not change the formula. Then when they realise they failed with what they had... they went with the Elf after a bit more market research.