Loyalty doesn't need to cost

[Cuzzie]

12 minutes ago, peteb said:

Have you really found many cheapo Yamahas or Squiers that were that good? I know that some early Squiers or Tokai basses were reckoned to be better than some of the new Fenders at the time (which in the 80s wasn’t saying much), but I’ve yet to find any that were anything special – gigable, maybe if you swapped out the pickups, but not great by any means.

My go-to bass is the one I paid the most money for, which was why I paid so much for it (secondhand of course). It’s got plenty of dings now, but who gives a f**k. It plays / sounds great and the reason that I bought it was to do gigs, not sit in the corner of a room…

Not cheapo Squires etc. But a parts bass using bits from Warmoth/Mighty Mite/All Parts etc will be very very decent

[peteb]

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Not cheapo Squires etc. But a parts bass using bits from Warmoth/Mighty Mite/All Parts etc will be very very decent

I am sure that you can put together a parts bass that will be very decent and perfectly gigable, but will it be as good as a Sadowsky, Lakland, or in my case, an Xotic?? 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[LeftyBiskit]

The bass I've played the most ,and  is my go-to is my Squire 2004 PJ bought buy my missis for me with her first bonus,and incedentally was my first lefty bass (I've been playing since 1978) I had to relearn all my bands set list in under a week as I'd been playing everything backwards) but I'm ok now 😓😨😨😨 I've since acquired a Sandberg and other higher end basses.see profile pic

Apologies ....damn auto correct and lack of bins.😀

Edited January 16, 2021 by LeftyBiskit
Content added

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, peteb said:

I am sure that you can put together a parts bass that will be very decent and perfectly gigable, but will it be as good as a Sadowsky, Lakland, or in my case an Xotic?? 

I was thinking more of that situation where you leave your very decent bass at home, but want something of sufficient quality to gig.

I’ll put my parts bass any Mex Fender, and probably their lower range American ones, preferred my P to the Sandberg P I had.

Sadowsky/Lakland/Xotic - can’t comment without a comparison(!) but of course probably not but that depends on the make up, I may not like their fitted electronics, but with a mod they may suit

[Cuzzie]

But I must add - like you - no reservation about taking any bass regardless of cost out and about

[prowla]

The brand is Squier, S-Q-U-I-E-R, not Squire. 

[peteb]

Just now, Cuzzie said:

But I must add - like you - no reservation about taking any bass regardless of cost out and about

Exactly, that's the point. You get the bass that you can find / afford and you take it out whenever you gig (alright, you might use different basses for different gigs).  

There's a reason why I wouldn't get a YOB Fender or a Fodera (probably the best bass I have ever played), even though I could afford it if I really wanted one. If you have to worry about leaving it in a corner of a pub, or the loss of value every time it gets a ding, then why get it in the first place. But I will quite happily take a £2k bass to a gig. 

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, prowla said:

The brand is Squier, S-Q-U-I-E-R, not Squire. 

Who cares? Never owned one, probably never will...!

[Cuzzie]

6 minutes ago, prowla said:

The brand is Squier, S-Q-U-I-E-R, not Squire. 

Sorry Squire, autocorrect and all that

[peteb]

56 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Sorry Squire, autocorrect and all that

It's just a brand name. If it was the grammar or punctuation that you were getting wrong, then he might have a point 🙂 

edited (ironically) for grammar! 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[dmccombe7]

26 minutes ago, peteb said:

Have you really found many cheapo Yamahas or Squiers that were that good? I know that some early Squiers or Tokai basses were reckoned to be better than some of the new Fenders at the time (which in the 80s wasn’t saying much), but I’ve yet to find any that were anything special – gigable, maybe if you swapped out the pickups, but not great by any means.

My go-to bass is the one I paid the most money for, which was why I paid so much for it (secondhand of course). It’s got plenty of dings now, but who gives a f**k. It plays / sounds great and the reason that I bought it was to do gigs, not sit in the corner of a room…

Our singer has a Squier Jazz CV model that is an excellent bass and a better feel than some of the high end Fenders i've tried in Guitar Guitar. Not tried it in a band setting but i don't see why it would make a difference. It sounded and felt the same as my Geddy CIJ which is another bass i'd put up against any US Jazz i've tried.

Mates Yamaha active bass was circa £500 altho 2nd hand and that's a fantastic bass to play altho i'd much prefer the passive version. Not sure what they are new tho. 

No idea what these basses would be like to gig with but mates Yam was being gigged almost every weekend.

Oddly enough the Fender bass i preferred in GG was the Vintera P bass mainly because the neck had a nicer feel and the frets were more shallow which is something i prefer on a fretted bass. I don't like tall frets on a bass but that's just a personal preferance.

For playability i'd have to say yes i've tried a few cheaper basses that were excellent. That might have been down to the fact the basses had been properly set up and felt better. Maybe the new Fenders in GG weren't set up yet. GG did have one Fender J in that was outstanding but it was a custom finish at a ridiculous price if i remember it was circa £4.5k but the finish was a weird black and grey design with maple neck. Gorgeous but not worth the £4.5k they wanted.

I'm generally one of those people that thinks you get what you pay for but some basses have proved me wrong. I wouldn't trade my Geddy CIJ for a US model.

Dave

 

[LeftyBiskit]

10 minutes ago, prowla said:

The brand is Squier, S-Q-U-I-E-R, not Squire. 

I know, I've had the damn thing long enough, unfortunately auto correct does not.

And I can't find my damn bins, pfft,

😎

[dmccombe7]

25 minutes ago, peteb said:

I am sure that you can put together a parts bass that will be very decent and perfectly gigable, but will it be as good as a Sadowsky, Lakland, or in my case, an Xotic?? 

Not saying a cheapo bass will knock the socks off every £2k bass but certainly beat many Fenders i've tried.

Tried a few Laklands that weren't that good IMO but can't remember what models they were. 

[peteb]

6 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Not saying a cheapo bass will knock the socks off every £2k bass but certainly beat many Fenders i've tried.

Tried a few Laklands that weren't that good IMO but can't remember what models they were. 

Money doesn’t necessarily equal quality and sometimes you are just paying for a name. I have played and owned some great Fenders and some bloody awful ones.

Every American Lakland that I have ever played has been superb, but I’ve never played a Skyline that has been above mediocre.

[dave_bass5]

44 minutes ago, peteb said:

Have you really found many cheapo Yamahas or Squiers that were that good?

It plays / sounds great and the reason that I bought it was to do gigs, not sit in the corner of a room…

Ill put my Squire CV Jazz up against any other bass, and for the reason as stated above. It will kill them all, as long as the following is taken in to account. 

If you want blocks, it doesnt have them, want active, it doesnt have it, want exotic wood or the emperor’s new clothes, well it has the latter, want a 5th string, it doesnt have it. Has frets, and...well sound like a Jazz. Not for everyone then. 

Want good feel and tone, loads of it. Very good playability, loads. Cost so little its not a problem taking it out, yep, got that.

Who cares what a bass costs. If a Squier is good enough for Herbie Flowers its going to make the grade for me as well, as long as i think with my hands and ears, and not my wallet.

Obviously ive played the ‘even’ cheaper Squires that didn’t feel right in my hands, but I also played 2 Dingwall’s i didnt like, and a KS that felt really hard to play not enjoyable (even though it’s an amazing bass).

[dmccombe7]

16 minutes ago, peteb said:

Exactly, that's the point. You get the bass that you can find / afford and you take it out whenever you gig (alright, you might use different basses for different gigs).  

There's a reason why I wouldn't get a YOB Fender or a Fodera (probably the best bass I have ever played), even though I could afford it if I really wanted one. If you have to worry about leaving it in a corner of a pub, or the loss of value every time it gets a ding, then why get it in the first place. But I will quite happily take a £2k bass to a gig. 

My gigging bass is my Sandberg VM4 or was when i was gigging a year ago 😂 

I've gigged expensive basses and even allowed other bands to use it altho i did know the bass players at the time including a WAL, Warwick Thumb, Ric and obviously Fenders in the 80's.

I don't gig my Overwater Custom fretless 6 altho i've used in studio or at a rehearsal but its mainly down to weight. Same goes for my Warwick Thumb. Its a bit heavy to do a full gig plus doesn't fit in with my current 70's Glam covers band image.

As i get older i'm moving more towards simple passive basses for gigging and quite fancy the white Vintera i tried in GG. That just felt right and sounded as a P bass should. I can't quite get that P bass sound from my VM4  or my Fender P/J bass when on P pick-up only. Its close but just not the same.

Dave 

[dmccombe7]

4 minutes ago, peteb said:

Money doesn’t necessarily equal quality and sometimes you are just paying for a name. I have played and owned some great Fenders and some bloody awful ones.

Every American Lakland that I have ever played has been superb, but I’ve never played a Skyline that has been above mediocre.

Might have been skyline basses i've tried  but not 100% sure. 

[peteb]

14 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ill put my Squire CV Jazz up against any other bass, and for the reason as stated above. It will kill them all, as long as the following is taken in to account. 

If you want blocks, it doesnt have them, want active, it doesnt have it, want exotic wood or the emperor’s new clothes, well it has the latter, want a 5th string, it doesnt have it. Has frets, and...well sound like a Jazz. Not for everyone then. 

Want good feel and tone, loads of it. Very good playability, loads. Cost so little its not a problem taking it out, yep, got that.

Who cares what a bass costs. If a Squier is good enough for Herbie Flowers its going to make the grade for me as well, as long as i think with my hands and ears, and not my wallet.

Obviously ive played the ‘even’ cheaper Squires that didn’t feel right in my hands, but I also played 2 Dingwall’s i didnt like, and a KS that felt really hard to play not enjoyable (even though it’s an amazing bass).

Are you telling me that your Squire CV Jazz is objectively a better bass than my Xotic Jazz? Seriously, I very much doubt it!

That’s not to say that your Squire is a bad bass, far from it. Diminishing returns start to kick in here and I’m guessing that I probably paid twice as much as you, but that’s not to say that the Xotic is twice the bass that your Squire is. Equally, I can’t see that a £6k Sadowsky (as good as I’m sure that it is) is noticeably better than my £2.5k (new, not what I paid for it) Xotic.

If you found a Ken Smith that was difficult to play, then someone has made a complete mess of setting it up!

[dmccombe7]

First thing i judge a bass by is how the neck feels then the general feel of the bass in total.I do that with any bass, cheap or expensive. If it doesn't feel right on the neck its a no-goer for me.

Then its how it sounds. I generally have an idea how a bass should sound before trying it. Talking about your typical Fender / Gibson / Ric basses rather than the boutique style basses. 

Never tried an Xotic bass. Can't even say i've heard one. Are there any famous bassists that you could point out to me for a listen Pete.

[peteb]

12 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Never tried an Xotic bass. Can't even say i've heard one. Are there any famous bassists that you could point out to me for a listen Pete.

Oh, the bass player in Govt Mule, Carmine Rojas (ex Joe Bonamassa, Bowie, John Waite, etc) and a load of Nashville session guys. 

12 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

First thing i judge a bass by is how the neck feels then the general feel of the bass in total.I do that with any bass, cheap or expensive. If it doesn't feel right on the neck its a no-goer for me.

I was thinking once of buying an Alembic (about 25 years ago). I went down to the old Bass Centre in Wapping to try one and as soon as I picked it up, I knew straight away that it wasn't for me. Incredibly well made bass and I'm sure that it would have sounded great, but the neck just wasn't for me! I bought a Warwick Streamer LX (that I still have) instead. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[dmccombe7]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

Oh, the bass player in Govt Mule, Carmine Rojas (ex Joe Bonamassa, Bowie, John waite, etc) and a load of Nashville session guys. 

I was thinking once of buying an Alembic (about 25 years ago). I went down to the old Bass Centre in Wapping to try one and as soon as I picked it up, I knew straight away that it wasn't for me. Incredibly well made bass and I'm sure that it would have sounded great, but the neck just wasn't for me! I bought a Warwick Streamer LX (that I still have) instead. 

Off to have a wee listen to some of them and maybe check out youtube reviews just to see what they are like.

I have a wee notion for an Alembic at the mment but probably won't and will end up buying a Vintera P bass as its stuck in my head. If i do decide to buy another bass that is. 

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I have a wee notion for an Alembic at the mment but probably won't and will end up buying a Vintera P bass as its stuck in my head. If i do decide to buy another bass that is. 

If you do go and buy an Alembic, then I hope that you take it out of the house and gig it...! 

[Al Krow]

I totally get where you're coming from @peteb

I agree it would be a real shame if a fantastic bass is locked away in a case and never actually played. 

But it can certainly be played a lot and for the owner to get a huge amount of pleasure from a bass, without ever gigging it. 

[peteb]

17 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I have a wee notion for an Alembic at the mment but probably won't and will end up buying a Vintera P bass as its stuck in my head. If i do decide to buy another bass that is. 

The bass player in the other band of a singer and drummer that I play with, has got an Alembic. A really beautiful bass. He saw it secondhand about 20 years ago and paid (I think) about £3k for it. He says that is the best bass that he has ever played and has used it on every gig he's done ever since (and he used to regularly play the WMC circuit, so that’s a lot of gigs). I would say that he got a bargain!

Funnily enough, I was watching him with a drummer that I was playing with at the time and he thought that the Xotic sounded better.

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, peteb said:

Are you telling me that your Squire CV Jazz is objectively a better bass than my Xotic Jazz? Seriously, I very much doubt it!

That’s not to say that your Squire is a bad bass, far from it. Diminishing returns start to kick in here and I’m guessing that I probably paid twice as much as you, but that’s not to say that the Xotic is twice the bass that your Squire is. Equally, I can’t see that a £6k Sadowsky (as good as I’m sure that it is) is noticeably better than my £2.5k (new, not what I paid for it) Xotic.

If you found a Ken Smith that was difficult to play, then someone has made a complete mess of setting it up!

Obviously I understand there is a huge difference better the two basses as far as something goes, but not sure what it is in real terms and what more money gets you when you are already happy. I get if you want the nicer finishes and woods then you pay more, also if you want a certain configuration you pay more, but ‘better’ is quite subjective IMO. I guess its hard for someone like me who is easily pleased to see where the money goes for boutique basses. It seems its all in places i don’t care about. 

As far as the KS goes. I just didnt get on with it. Don’t blame the owner for a bad set up, blame KS for making a bass that doesnt work for me lol. Basses are a very personal thing these days (it didnt seem to  be years ago). Just because it cost 5K+ doesnt mean everyone will automatically like it and want one. This is another example of more money doesn’t necessarily get you better. 

 

Hopefully I’m not coming across as rude or argumentative, just putting it as i see it.